99 E300 TD - cuts out - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TMAllison · #1 02-17-2004, 01:18 AM

Subject car was bought and shipped from out of state. Upon arrival, drove down off transport truck, idled roughly and then drove 100 yd to my house. Smartly. Was turned off to admire and wouldnt start again. Check engine light on. Wants to run.

Towed to Indie I've used for other diesels 4 days later. He's very good with older diesels like my 85 300TD; perhaps not curent enough equipment for the newer ones?

5 hours mechanical/electrical diaognostics later after cpmputer disclosed no error codes he put dip stick in tank to confirm indeed had fuel and smelled gasoline. I've seen, smelled and am inclined to agree.

Completely drained fuel system and replaced filter. No help. Prior dianogostics showed 2 bad glow plugs, 2 low and 2 good resistance. Replaced all. Started for first time. Check engin light still on. No code.

Idled ok. Rev'd OK. When driven cuts out under full throttle. Air in fuel lines.

Replaced pre-filter and o-ring. Helped; is now possible to start and drive, but continues to cut out w/o warning. Instantly! All speeds, idle to full throttle.

Whenever turned off, fuel line from Fuel Thermo to Pre-Filter drains. Line has new o rings. Typically when cuts out exhibits whoose of air from pre-filter back towards thermo (line 606.070.1432). This is backwards right? This is the fuel feed line.

Is very little air present in lines now. One or two itty bitty lil bubbles every five minutes. Blink and you miss them.

Still cuts out at idle and while crusing (at idle seems to be when temp hits 86 or 87 C, while crusing dont know...am usually busy looking for someplace to pull over).

Priming pump 40 secs to start does nothing other than drain battery. Coughs, splutters, wont start.

To get started again, have learned to
1) turn ignition off
2) disconnect electrical connection to fuel shut off
3) turn ignition on
4) reconnect electric connection to shut off
5) turn key past position 2 and start

Question....what do I look at next to resolve the cutting out. O-rings at all fuel lines? Fuel thermostat? Fuel cut off valve? Other?

And most importantly why?

Thanks
Terry (a very frustrated owner a of E300TD from Texas) Allison

jcyuhn · #2 02-17-2004, 10:02 AM

Still sounds like you have air leaks in the fuel system. When the o-rings failed on my '98 there were lots of bubbles visible in the clear lines, the car was hard to start, and it would hesitate and stumble badly when driving. Never actually stalled on the road, but sure felt like it wanted to.

It's probably best to replace all the fuel lines. Our professional techs on the board have noticed the plastic ends crack, rendering it impossible to get a good seal even with o-ring replacement. My 1998 E300 required this repair in late 2001.

Look for a recent thread from Rick Miley about his '99 diesel. It even includes the part numbers for the lines. I believe there are five or six separate lines.

The techs replace more than a few of the shut-off valves due to fuel leaks as well.

Once a diesel is running, about the only thing that will stop it is lack of fuel. Of course, on this car the injection pump is under electronic control, so there's some chance it could be electrical. Is the cutting out more of a stumble, or is it sudden and total? I wonder if there's a problem with the shutoff valve, or the electrical signal to the shutoff valve?

- JimY

TMAllison · #3 02-17-2004, 11:26 AM

Thanks for input. The mechanic wants to R & R all o rings rather than install new lines. He is more of a fixer than replacer. I'll monitor afterwards and replace lines as needed. They're cheap.

The engine cuts out instantly. No hiccups, no warning.

Seems like if air is the culprit it would protest and slowly die as air built up to unacceptable levels?

I'm leaning towards the shut off valve, but.....I'm no expert. Just a guy who doesnt like the usual approach of replacing parts until the correct one is stumbled upon as so often seems to be the case.

Terry

mbdoc · #4 02-17-2004, 12:44 PM

There is a RELAY module that supplies power to the fuel shut-off at the front of the injection pump. MB part number 000-540-01-72.

MrCjames · #5 02-17-2004, 01:37 PM

One area that is often overlooked during a service on this engine is the fuel pre-filter. Some will discover when they receive the replacement filter it has no o-ring to accompany it. Due to time constraints the o-ring from the old filter often gets transferred to the new filter causing complications later. I understand that some filters have been replaced unknowingly without the o-ring however, in those cases the engine simply did not start once the service was completed.

All new plastic lines, new pre-filter with new O-ring, and with new rubber lines from the engine to firewall.

IMHO this method addresses the cause to a large portion of 606 starting/performance complaints primarily during cold start and warm up.

Pre-filter # 601-092-01-05
O-ring # 601-997-01-48

TMAllison · #6 02-17-2004, 02:13 PM

Thanks both.

Have new pre-filter and o ring.

MB Doc: Can't find a picture of the relay you refered to, is it at the front/side of the injector pump having 3 fuel lines and one electrical connection? If so is what I previously described as the fuel shut off valve.

jcyuhn · #7 02-17-2004, 02:44 PM

Here's a question. How is the fuel shutoff valve operated? Is power applied to permit the engine to start, or is power applied to shut the engine off? If the former, an intermittent failure of either the shutoff valve, or the relay mentioned by the good Doctor, or the wiring harness, could cause the engine to suddenly shutdown during operation. Seems like a good place to focus your investigation.

Rick Miley · #8 02-17-2004, 03:08 PM

Take a look here.

I know you don't want to blindly replace parts, but replacing all those silly plastic fuel lines would be a good idea. If you see any bubbles at all, then they are leaking!

mbdoc · #9 02-18-2004, 08:20 AM

The relay "module" that I mentioned is in the FUSE box. THE fuel system computer sends a signal to that relay & the relay powers-up the shut-off solenoid at the front of the injection pump.

I agree that ALL fuel lines should be replaced! HOWEVER if the car is on the highway running & stalls, it wouldn't be related to AIR being sucked into the lines. AIR in the lines will make the engine very hard to start after sitting.

TMAllison · #10 02-20-2004, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by M.B.DOC
The relay "module" that I mentioned is in the FUSE box. THE fuel system computer sends a signal to that relay & the relay powers-up the shut-off solenoid at the front of the injection pump.

I agree that ALL fuel lines should be replaced! HOWEVER if the car is on the highway running & stalls, it wouldn't be related to AIR being sucked into the lines. AIR in the lines will make the engine very hard to start after sitting.

Am replacing all fuel lines this weekend. Not expecting this to resolve problem but am doing to rule out air entering system and as preventive measure for future.

For reference the above mentioned relay module IS shown to be located in the fuse box on the dealer diagram but is actually located in the box on the opposite fender well.

Question: Any simple tests available to confirm operation of the relay module vs. shut off solenoid to determine which may be causing the fault?

TMAllison · #11 02-20-2004, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by M.B.DOC
The relay "module" that I mentioned is in the FUSE box. THE fuel system computer sends a signal to that relay & the relay powers-up the shut-off solenoid at the front of the injection pump.

I agree that ALL fuel lines should be replaced! HOWEVER if the car is on the highway running & stalls, it wouldn't be related to AIR being sucked into the lines. AIR in the lines will make the engine very hard to start after sitting.

Am replacing all fuel lines this weekend. Not expecting this to resolve problem but am doing to rule out air entering system and as preventive measure for future.

For reference the above mentioned relay module IS shown to be located in the fuse box on the dealer diagram but is actually located in the box on the opposite fender well.

Question: Any simple tests available to confirm operation of the relay module vs. shut off solenoid to determine which may be causing the fault?

mbdoc · #12 02-20-2004, 05:42 PM

IF that was my car I would spend the $80 for the relay module!!!!
& then worry about the fuel lines.

TMAllison · #13 02-20-2004, 05:54 PM

Thank you Sir!

My Indie is a stubborn cus and is insistant on the fuel lines which was against my better judgement based on my expirience with how the car shut down.

I'm headed to pick up the lines now and will order the relay like I wanted to do a couple days ago.