What about Snap-On MT2500
 

I need to straighten out some possibly eroneous info I have given to the group. On more than one occasion I have recommended a Snap-On scanner MT2500 as a cheap "real" tool as opposed to the generic OBDII tools so many of you have talked about.

The generic OBDII, which a Snap-On will also do, is a very insufficient tool for even the singular area it is designed to monitor. The only area it will monitor is the engine/trans (not much on trans.

I do have a Snap-On scanner but have never used it on a MB. I have used it on BMW and assumed their coverages would be similar. I even ordered a VW module yesterday from Snap-On based on a recent tech discussion on iATN that discussed how much better Snap-On had done the software than VW (whose scanner is more different than any other make's tool).

I will check to see how much Snap-On covers, but I felt I should place this warning and start a discussion on its capabilities. It might only do engine and trans. It WILL do them a thousand times better than OBDII as MB didn't really transfer their test techniques to OBDII in a way to help techs. They only fullfilled the extent of the law, which produced some pretty useless data.

Timely post, Steve. Your technical details are always informative and interesting to read - at least to this weekend mechanic-wannabe.

I've been studying the generic OBD II software and scanners, and looked at the Snap-on MT2500. I've seen that scanner in most shops around my area. I've also talked with several other car-nut buddies who are quite satisfied with the laptop loadable generic systems.

For a serious hobbyist of average financial means, is the Snap-on unit realistic? You are saying the generics don't provide sufficient testing or versatility? On the other hand, it can get very expensive to buy a dedicated instrument that needs specific modules for functionality.

Your opinion?

Before I realized that Snap-On might only have engine and trans capability, I recommended them based upon the fact that although a new unit cost about $4k, the older units will work just fine with all the vehicle specific modules like MB, BMW, and VW/Audi. The VW one is supposed to be the best thing I can have at any price. The BMW works on body and chassis functions. If the MB module only does eng/trans then it doesn't solve the MB problem!

The point to all ths was that OBDII is poor for eng diagnostics where it works (won't do anything on a pre 96 car, of course exceptions occur such as the MB C car) and absolutely useless on the many questions I read about here. Most of the repairs I do with a scanner are not engine related so an OBDII device is useless in those areas and poor everywhere else.

With that all in mind I figured that a used Snap-On would really offer a DIYer a usefull view at maybe double the price of some OBDII testers. (500 used and a MB module for 500 new or less used). As a 700-1000 tool the Snap-On was a good alternative, IF IT DID ANYTHING. I thought it probably did, but I might be wrong, I am just figuring it out.

There are a number of good alternatives that one could watch for. I got 1000 for my AST retriever with rather old software but fully functional to about 1998 (fully functional as aftermarket scanners were in 1998). I saw one on ebay a while ago that looked like 700 would take it.

There is a new tool out that costs $2400 that does real good on MBs and also just about everything else Asian or euro, see www.x431.com . Most scanners cost more than that just for one application. A new Baum with best MB module is probably $4-5k
The AST is a little cheaper.

My original point to making the suggestion of a Snap-On was base on the never ending source of cheap used versions on ebay and the knowledge that anyone really interested in dealing with diagnostic code will be stopped real quick with only a OBDII device.

To me it is sort of like saying: Here I have a real good story for you. It is real expensive though and so I will sell you only page OBDII and you will have to dream up the rest of the story. Having just OBDII would be like only getting page 15 in the 10,000 page book of MB diagnostics. I think that it is important for me to impress upon those considering such tools my opinion of this relationship. I think one page out of 10,000 gives a good picture. It may be more accurate to say one page in a million.

Steve, I've been looking into this for some time now and haven't found anything yet that would make your suggestion in doubt...
The device I have for scanning OBDII is good and lets me see some limited "live" data on my MB. Its very handy once you understand what the system is doing. Having said that, the real knowledge, as you know, is in the data stream both to and from the PCM... especially in the 96 and later cars.
Still not sure what the Snap-On can see beyond the engine/trans, but that's enough for me at this point. The data available will be several orders of magnitude better than I had previously and will help pinpoint not just the "what" but also the "why".
I managed to get a used head unit for just over 200 dollars off eBay, so even if I buy a new MB module from Snap-On, I'll be in the 800 buck category. Not bad. Also, the cabling that comes with the MB module is already set up for the 38 pin connector... just plug it in and turn it on.
For what its worth, I appreciate your original suggestion and your taking the time to point out the MT2500 as an option to learn more about these cars.
I'm still curious about what other systems, if any, it can scan, but those will be a bonus.
Regards,

Keep the posts coming. My issue is that I only have one MB in my stable :mad: and my needs would be for differnt marquees.

If you were selecting a system for a variety of manufacuteres, what makes sense?

This is a real complicated question. The most sensible answer is there is no exact answer.

I would say that most technicians when considering your question with your level of need would say the Snap-On.

My favorite overall scanner is the Vetronics Mastertech. It is the factory scanner for Honda and Toyota and a couple other Asian cars I don't pay much attention to. It was created from the TechI scanner that was the factory GM scanner up to 1991. Vetronix developed the software for the Tech2 (GM factory scanner to current) and have most of it running on the mastertech so it does almost everything on GM that Tech2 does. It also does a resonable job on engine, chassis, and body on Ford and Chrysler. Tech2 IS the GM factory scanner from 1991 on and is the most sophisticated program available for under 3k, but it only works well on GM and Saab.

Baum works well on a number of euro and Asian cars, probably because of Mastertech they don't do Honda or Toyota (big hole).

AST does a number of Euro cars, don't know whether they do any Asian cars.

I have all the above scanners, with various modules to fit the coverages I need and desire doubles of. I also have a number of factory scanners.

Aside from these real good, solid, available used, scanners there are a number of new guys on the block. As I pointed out above I think the x431 scanner may be the best bang for the buck: www.x431.com

It appears to me that it does about everything but domestics and I used it on a 99 E430 and it saw every module on the car. it only pulled fault codes on the samller ones like door control modules but on the engine it graphed values and had all the major menu items including programming. I didn't do any so I can't say how it works. Its too new for used but its price is better than any of the above and coverage is a new era.

These are all professional tools.

Great discussion - probably the best information I've read on this subject thus far. However........


.......gee.....maybe you don't really need all of them and you'd like to 'unload'?;)

Steve...
 

Steve,
Finally have the answer... managed to grab a used 2001 Mercedes Cartridge off of eBay and finally have my Snap On MT2500 working..
Played with it for a while this morning and can confirm that it reads only the powertrain... i.e. only the engine and trans. Gives lots and lots of information, allows a number of tests, reprogramming of a new PCM computer, but nothing in the subsystems of the car like SRS, ABS, etc. Communications were a snap... scanner linked right into the car's computer without fuss.
All in all, I still think a good investment... my total cost buying everything used is about 500 dollars.
Besides, I figure that now that I have it, I will never need it!
Hope this helps anyone exploring this option for a scanner.
Regards,