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Old 10-03-2000, 05:56 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 126
I was just in for my 10,000-mile service. I asked the service guy “when do we get to see the new
Diesels here in the USA. He said “NEVER”. “WHAT!” I said, with just a bit of panic in my voice, “how can that be?” He backed down a bit and said “not in the foreseeable future”

The question is should I take REAL good care of my 99-TD, because it might be the last
Diesel I can get here in the USA?

[This message has been edited by richard u (edited 10-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by richard u (edited 10-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by richard u (edited 10-03-2000).]

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Old 10-03-2000, 06:06 AM
Posts: n/a

It may very well be your last, certainly your last new Benz diesel. With our illustration and genius politicians pushing the sulpher out of the diesel fuel and tightening the limits on diesel emissions, it looks like even the excellent 1.9TDI diesel in the Jetta and Beatle, and maybe even used in the Audi are an endangered species.

What really boils me is the removal of sulpher from diesel fuel. These politicians and tree huggers think that they're such geniuses. What's happening is when removing the sulpher, you remove the lubricity from the diesel fuel. To keep from knocking out injection systems in older diesels without hardened components, people add oil to their fuel which puts back in 100 times more sulpher than there was in it to begin with.

Your genius tree huggers at work. You can thank them for diesel extinction.

Good luck,

Larry Bible
'01 C Class, Six Speed
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
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Old 10-03-2000, 07:51 AM
Posts: n/a

One thing I like and don't like about you, is that you don't pull any punches. Surprisingly, you'd make a good lawyer, he he he.

Speaking of diesels, is there any way that they can put some kind of fancy hi-tech catalytic converter on a diesel to reduce the emissions level to an acceptable limits with gas engines??

'89 420 SEL
'90 300 SEL
'68 Olds 88 Convertible
'84 300 SD (sold it)
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Old 10-03-2000, 09:32 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166
Have the low sulphur requirements already gone into effect? Is the diesel fuel I now buy of low sulphur content?

If so, guess I had better start adding oil to my fuel tank.


1979 240D
160,000 miles
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Old 10-03-2000, 10:56 AM
Jay Jay is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Breinigsville,Pa.
Posts: 299
Mattsuzie ask,<<Speaking of diesels, is there any way that they can put some kind of fancy hi-tech catalytic converter on a diesel to reduce the emissions level to an acceptable limits with gas engines??>>

Yes. My wifes 96Passat TDI has a Cat' converter.I don't know if it is high tech, but is is connected to the CPU.

96VW Passat TDI 83k
88Caddy 189k
83 MB 241k THE SILVER COFFIN Retired for repairs
80 Eldorado 5.7liter Diesel 165k FOR SALE CHEAP
Cannondale SR500
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Old 10-03-2000, 12:17 PM
Posts: n/a
I don't get it then. Why is MB USA trashin diesels here?

'89 420 SEL
'90 300 SEL
'68 Olds 88 Convertible
'84 300 SD (sold it)
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Old 10-03-2000, 12:40 PM
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
Baisc reason is that MBUSA can't market the diesel powered cars so they will sell & that DC(Mercedes) Germany can't build enough diesels for their own market. The diesel waiting list is over 3 months in Germany. The 2.7CDI is as fast as the new W203 C240 (2.6L) & gets 7-10 mpg more. Fuel there costs $4-6 a gal.

27 YEARS DEALER M.B. Shopforeman
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA racecar
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Old 10-03-2000, 01:20 PM
Posts: n/a
Many consider it unfortunate that the diesel engine is being phased out of production for use in the US by many (most) car manufacturers. But due to tightening of the US emissions standards, manufacturers are dropping diesel engines from their US lineup, simply because the engines don't meet the ever tightening US emission standards. Although some will, as was suggested above, add oil to their engines to offset the reduction of additives in diesel, the almost immediate elimination of several million new diesel engines sold for use on US roadways, followed by tens of millions more reduced by attrition, will permit a substantial reduction of pollutants. The reduction of additives will have a bad effect on many (most?) diesels around and hasten their elimination from the roadway. In 10 years, give or take, there will probably be 90% less diesel powered vehicles on the roads than there are now as a consequence. Except, of course, for the 240D, as they'll run forever

While any conscionable person would feel for those who will be adversely affected because of this, and in the end, we'll all pay more for anything having to do with transporting goods & services as a result of this change, only an idiot would blame Congress for taking a positive step to reduce pollution… In fact, it is merely the next of many steps that will take place in the next 10 to 20 years to SUBSTANTIALLY reduce pollutants from automobiles. The sad truth is that we as individuals won't do it ourselves, so our government takes steps to force us to do the right thing. If you don't think so, go downtown and take a deep breath during rush hour, and think about it…

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Old 10-03-2000, 02:17 PM
Posts: n/a
I don't want to get into politics on this board as to what to blame and what not to blame Congress for, but I would like to say that Congress is comprised mostly of lawyers, not engineers/scientists/physicists, so it is very interesting on how some of the politicians know or claim to know so much about emission reduction. If I am at all critical at any aspect of Congress' actions, I guess I'm the idiot. Didn't this same Congress recommend gasohol and other rediculous types of fuel that wound up worse than burning the original product?

Having said that, one thing I wish is that other nations had stricter auto and business pollution laws. Has anyone been to Asia, Mexico, Central America, etc?

Anyway, If there are components to lower diesel engine emmitants, I don't see why we have to discontinue diesel engines?

'89 420 SEL
'90 300 SEL
'68 Olds 88 Convertible
'84 300 SD (sold it)
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Old 10-03-2000, 04:16 PM
Posts: n/a
Two things:

Yes, they made a converter for diesels, it was called a Trap Oxidizer and MB is still paying the price for that one. If you have an '86 or '87 Benz diesel, Benz still removes it and replaces with a complete new exhaust system, no charge. I guess it's safe to say it did not work out.

What doesn't "wash" about the diesel emissions worries, is that most of diesel emissions are particulate that falls to the ground in the form of dust. It doesn't hang in the air.

Mattsuzie, with a '79 Benz diesel that has not been updated with hardened barrels in the injection pump, you should add an ounce or two of clean oil to each tankful to prevent injection pump damage. It just takes a small touch of oil to do the job.

Good luck,

Larry Bible
'01 C Class, Six Speed
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
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Old 10-03-2000, 07:01 PM
JCE's Avatar
JCE JCE is offline
Down to the Wear Bars
Join Date: May 1999
Location: So Kalifornia
Posts: 2,189
If I understand my atmospheric chemist friends correctly, the big pollutant problem from diesel is the particulates, not hydrocarbons or sulphur, and that the trains, trucks, stationary generators, outweigh the diesel car as a source of these pollutants. Apparently many health effects, including cardiac and stroke, are related to particulates, but this has been a tough measure for environmental groups to push as a "new" pollutant in Washington, so the push is on decreasing the limits on already regulated hydrocarbons and sulphur as a means of "discouraging" particulate generation.

87 300E, 65k miles
Smoke Silver

[This message has been edited by JCE (edited 10-04-2000).]
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Old 10-03-2000, 07:31 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 72
If I am not mistaken, after the 1986/1987 fiasco with the trap oxidizer, Mercedes in 1995 installed the first true catalytic converter in the E300D. It was the first use of such a device in an application similar to gas powered automobiles. I believe all diesel Mercs sold in Europe since 1995 have cats installed. It is indeed a shame that excellent vehicles such as the E290CDI as well as other diesels available in Europe cannot come to the U.S. due to certain theories about emission controls.The Audi A8 TDi twin turbo has some 250Hp and god knows how much torque, at 35MPG on the autobahn it is probably one of the best all around oil burners in the world. What I think Washington fails to recognize is that diesel powered cars are 30-40% more eficient that gas powered automobiles, therefore there is less consumption, less polution generated by prospection and refining processes, etc... Just my .02.
Joe Brasileiro
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Old 10-03-2000, 09:38 PM
A. Rosich's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Posts: 883
It is really a shame that due to a really serious misunderstanding about diesel fuel and pollution standards the U.S. is missing and will be missing some of the greatest cars M.B. have ever built:

The local dealer just imported a G400 C.D.I. (Gelandewagen with a 4.0 liter direct-injection V8 diesel). That is the supreme 4x4! Not even the G500 V8 comes close. This new V8 diesel has more torque than the new V12 from Mercedes, with over 1/3 less fuel comsuption.

By the way, an interesting design update: the 2001 Gelandewagens come equipped with a new redesigned dash (mainly based on the instrument cluster, a/c and radio controls from the new 2001 C-Class).

In november they are expecting the first S400 CDI to arrive. If this car can avoid the problems that the 3.5 liter diesel generated, it should the be ultimate Mercedes-Benz to own.

A. Rosich
'95 E320T
'98 S320
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Old 10-03-2000, 10:45 PM
steve hutson
Posts: n/a
I just purchased an '87 300dtd with a blown
engine, and in the course of attempting to get
it back on the road, I've discovered that there is a huge amount of misinformation and
a lack of knowledge about these fine diesel
engines that MB built. To wit:

1. Depending on who answers the phone at MBUSA, the trap oxidizer campaign is or isn't
completed(thus you may or may not get this
work paid for)
2. Most shops that I contacted, including
dealers, had no idea what the trap oxidizer
is, much less what the recall actually involved.

Here is what my car got.
Campaign recall# 961121
parts: 124-490-00-47 catalyst
603-140-03-03 pipe elbow
124-490-86-21 exh. pipe
124-490-19-21 exh. pipe
1kit rpl-trap-oxd
603-990-06-05 1 stud
999901-008005 1 nut

The work involved; removing the trap oxidizer,
which was just above the turbo, replacing it
with a cast iron manifold; removing the exhaust system from the turbo to the tailpipe, replacing it with a new exhaust pipe and a catalyst.
I noticed on the invoice that I did't get new muffler hangers! Maybe they were part of the "kit", but MBUSA wouldn't reveal the contents of the "kit" for proprietary reasons.

The biggest lesson in all of this has been thatfor some reason, info concerning M-Bs
is closely held, and is doled out in snippets, strictly on a need to know basis.
I am truly grateful for having found this
website, for it has a wealth of information along with the great commentary!
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Old 10-04-2000, 02:10 AM
unkl300d's Avatar
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Posts: 2,343
What about bio-diesel as an alternative
clean fuel ? I know that officially MBZ
does not recommend the use of this with the diesel engine but I've seen
some MBZ 300d wagons advertising their
fuel as biodiesel. It can be bought at
a boat dock in the east bay and
costs a bit more than diesel #2 (although at today's prices, maybe not). I believe it may require a minor modification to engine (very minor).
By bio-diesel I refer to the soybean product.
Well, presidential candidates, get the soy product industry going in America
and boost biodiesel ! (yeah, money and politics).
Dr. Randal von Wedel 510-233-0102
(he printed a book on automobile use of biodiesel). Friendly and very informative guy.
These web sites offer interesting
tech info.
So there, tech talk!!
keep on dieseling.

1979 300D
133K miles
1989 300SE
1995 C280

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