I finally, after numerous close calls, bought a fintail

[300SDog]

Nah, I disagree on "rebuildability" of Zenith carbs. These are nothing like Solex and Strombergs. And the typical carb rebuilt kit includes a few gaskets, float valve and maybe ONE fuel jet, right? - hahaha, not zeniths not in a million years. I doubt there's even a rebuild kit available for them. Back in the '70s when zenith carbs warped or wore out you just replaced the entire carb instead of cracking open all 3 cases on each and messing with atomizers, high and low speed jets in passages spec'd to clearances you wouldnt believe, fuel regulating solenoids, etc. I doubt they were designed to ever be completely torn apart and/or rebuilt. If it was me I'd just shoot some carb cleaner into accessible openings, then rely on fuel additives to drive em clean with the car on the road.

Couple of years ago some poor bastard tried rebuilding his zeniths here, thread lasted about 3 months and maybe 8 pages. He finally gave up or somebody offered him a good running set of zenith replacement carbs, i forget exactly. And we haint heard anybody doing extensive work on Zeniths since. Probly the only servicable items on these carbs is external acceleration pumps and electric chokes. http://jaimekop.com/CarbManual/index.html Ran with zeniths for many years, liked em for the performance they delivered. But never dared tear em apart myself, hearing everybody including the dealership and independent MB mechanics say they were NOT rebuildable. And this was back in the late 70s and early/mid 80s when carburetors were understood by everybody.

(edit: Please understand, I aint sayin you caint pull the top cover off (got a new replacement gasket?) and shoot some carb cleaner into the passages, but y'all would be out of your mind to start messing with tearing into jets, atomizers and tiny little brass fiddly bits for the helluvit. For example, the main jet atomizer located in center of throat on zeniths is notorious for snapping right off if you take a screwdriver to it. Busted one off myself but the car continued to run reasonably well afterwards anyhow. And then i later owned another 220Sb where the previous owner's mechanic had snapped off the same piece.

[meltedpanda]

My 2 cents, my carb sat for 10+ years, I was able to spray it , run clean gas and adjust while on and it has done fine, I am with dog, worry about the seals later. You will probably have to rig up a gas tank like I did to see if she will fire and then go from there

[WANT '71 280SEL]

I got the car to the shop last night and finally got around to really looking at it today. The body is pretty rust free though it does have a little in the back of the front inner fenders as well as a little on the front fenders behind the front wheels. I did however find that it will need both rear floor pans replaced, the front ones looked pretty good and solid. I washed it and the paint is pretty good but it has rock chips all over which I can hopefully just go over them with touch-up paint, that will have to suffice until next summer when I can hopefully get it stripped and painted.

One more discovery I made today is that the P/S pump is MIA! Both of the P/S hoses are just hanging off the steering gear box.

As for some of the more important issues at hand:
1: missing P/S pump, I guess I can do without until I find a cheap one.
2. when trying to steer to get it on/off the trailer and around the shop it steers to the left fine, but when turning the wheel to the right, the steering wheel wants to stop every half turn or so and to overcome the point, you have to turn quite a bit harder and then there is a loud bang noise. The noise seems to be coming from the upper part of the column. I did not have the key in the ignition since it is missing, so could this be some sort of steering lock that only partly works?
3. There is a line coming off the block that goes about 2-3" then stops, I think it is towards the middle on the left side, is this the coolant wire for the temp guage?
4: old car smell, what is it and do any of you know of a way to get rid of it? Thinking about it, I was wondering if it is the old horsehair in the seat pads? It's not a mold smell but it seems like a lot of these old fintails I have looked at had this smell inside of them.
5: where can I get door seals other than at the dealer? I figured I'd get the front and rear windshield gaskets at the dealer, but the door seals would cost way too much to get them all there.

Thanks
David

[WANT '71 280SEL]

Another thing I noticed about this car is that it doesn't have any seatbelts. There are holes in each of the B pillars where it looks like shoulder belts could mount. I'll have to remove the trim pieces there to see if the holes are really for shoulder belts. I did not see anything on the ground where it looks like lap belts even mounted. The car is carpeted and looks like someone just got some automotive carpet and made it to fit. They actually did a really good job but is pretty old. Are there carpet sets that one can buy for the 111 sedans? I always see sets for 111 coupes, but not for the sedans.

Thanks
David

[Mark DiSilvestro]

You should already have factory-installed threaded shoulder-belt anchors in the pillars, behind the trim, and threaded lap-belt anchors in the floor, behind the front seats. You may have a problem relying on the lab-belt anchors if your rear floors are badly rusted. My '60 Fintail had no factory seatbelt anchors. Because my rear floors were badly rusted, I installed the lap belt anchors in the rear sills and tunnel, as per my '72 250 and fabricated threaded reinforcing plates for the pillars, so I could add front shoulder-belts too. If you're serious about installing seatbelts, don't waste your time or risk your life on some old vintage belts. Get new ones. I got my new lap and shoulder belts, with vintage-'60s style chrome buckles, from J C Whitney.

And yes that car has / had a steering lock.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[WANT '71 280SEL]

Thanks for the info Mark. Today I sat in the LR back seat and my feet about went completely through the floor! The floor pan is now bent down from where I put my feet. I will have to put a plate there until next summer when I can have the rear floor pans replaced.

I tried today to get it to run. I used a remote starter to bump it over after letting ATF soak in the cylinders. It is not seized, but I am not getting any spark. The points are opening and closing correctly but we need to now take a fingernail file and clean the contact on the points. The plugs aren't too bad and we didn't get too serious about the car today, we just wanted to see if we could get it to try and start.

About the steering lock, it wants to stop when the wheel is centered, then to continue turning to the right, you have to force it and it then makes the bang noise, until it is centered, where it tries to lock again. It only does this when trying to turn right. I guess I'll wait till I have keys to see if it is the steering lock or what.

The linkage piece connecting the shifter to the tranny is off, which seems very typical for these old fintail cars. It is the joint where the rod connects to the tranny; I assume I need to replace it?

As for the wheel covers, ************** said they will sell me all 4 covers and 4 trim rings for $180+shipping, does that sound reasonable?

Also, regarding the tires that are on this, the front ones are 185/80/R13 where as the rears are 175/70 or 75/R13. I assume the 185/80's are the correct tires? The rear ones look way too small to be on the car.

About the gear indicator. Are these simple mechanisms to get working again? I saw one thread about the 108s being a pain, but I didn't know if working in a 111 dash is as hard as it is in a 108.

Keep any suggestions coming please. Right now I am mainly concerned with getting spark to the plugs. I still have to change the oil, we just thought we would try to start it for the heck of it. I also will drain the gas via the drain plug (MB was thoughtful in this regard) and replace the fuel filter. I also plan to disconnect the fuel line that goes to the carbs and crank the engine until the new clean gas comes through, so as to not put crappy gas into my delicate Zeniths.

Thanks
David

[wbain5280]

Originally Posted by WANT '71 280SEL

About the steering lock, it wants to stop when the wheel is centered, then to continue turning to the right, you have to force it and it then makes the bang noise, until it is centered, where it tries to lock again. It only does this when trying to turn right. I guess I'll wait till I have keys to see if it is the steering lock or what.

Also, regarding the tires that are on this, the front ones are 185/80/R13 where as the rears are 175/70 or 75/R13. I assume the 185/80's are the correct tires? The rear ones look way too small to be on the car.

About the gear indicator. Are these simple mechanisms to get working again? I saw one thread about the 108s being a pain, but I didn't know if working in a 111 dash is as hard as it is in a 108.

There is a pin for the steering lock and a hole in the steering column.

The back tires are the wrong size.

See panel 7 on this page:

http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=111012&M=180%2E941&CT=F&cat=238&SID=27&SGR=001&SGN=01

The shift indicator has a wire that hooks onto part 514.

Do you still have the underdash panels installed? If so, perhaps you can take them out and make some templates on drawing paper and send them to me. I'm sure others would like them too.

[nhdoc]

Originally Posted by WANT '71 280SEL

...I tried today to get it to run. I used a remote starter to bump it over after letting ATF soak in the cylinders. It is not seized, but I am not getting any spark. The points are opening and closing correctly but we need to now take a fingernail file and clean the contact on the points. The plugs aren't too bad and we didn't get too serious about the car today, we just wanted to see if we could get it to try and start....

Did you happen to remember to hot-wire around the ignition switch?

I didn't see anywhere you mentioning you ever got a key for it so I assume it is still in the "off" position...with the switch off all the cranking in the world with a remote starter switch will not produce a spark...just a thought...

[Mark DiSilvestro]

185/80R13 is the correct 'modern' radial replacement for the original 7.25x13 bias plys. Last time I checked, NTB still carried them in a house brand, but if you want them in a quality brand like Michelin or Pirelli, you're probably out of luck. Last year I bought the last set of 185/80R13 B F Goodrich tires Sam's Club had for Miss Daisy, but they don't handle as well as the 14 year old Pirellis that came off her. I do have a set of early W108 14-inch rims, that have the mounting ears to fit my original small Fintail hubcaps, so I can try to find a better 14-inch tire.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Obnoxio]

Originally Posted by nhdoc

Did you happen to remember to hot-wire around the ignition switch?

I didn't see anywhere you mentioning you ever got a key for it so I assume it is still in the "off" position...with the switch off all the cranking in the world with a remote starter switch will not produce a spark...just a thought...

Thats just what I was thinking. I would pull the whole ignition assy, and replace it with new key and steering lock. It sounds like somebody broke the steering lock trying to move the car in the past. this is not something you want acting up when you finally get to drive it.

On your floor issue, do you think POR-15 might be something that would work for you?

[nhdoc]

Does anyone know when they started to install steering locks? My '64 does not have one but my '72 does...if his '66 does then I guess it was after '64 but before '66 but I would have thought it was later than '66...

[Mark DiSilvestro]

David,
I haven't 'tested' the steering locks in my '60 Fintail or '72 250 sedan, but the symptoms you described may be normal for these cars (or at least normal with an old lock). Many years ago, right after I got a '61 Ponton 180b, I forgot it had a steering lock. For some reason, I tried to turn the wheel without the key and it 'popped' loose. It then re-locked when I turned it back to the right position. Never had any problems with it once I used the key.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by nhdoc

Does anyone know when they started to install steering locks? My '64 does not have one but my '72 does...if his '66 does then I guess it was after '64 but before '66 but I would have thought it was later than '66...

A '64 Mercedes should have a steering lock. Perhaps yours has been removed, disabled or broken.
Many German cars had steering locks by the 50s, including Mercedes Ponton cars and possibly even their earlier models. Even my '57 German DKW 3=6 coupe has a steering lock.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[meltedpanda]

sounds like you have some rust issues , a pain but fixable. I really would not invest in any "stuff" until you make sure the engine and tranny are good.
It is hard not to look at the end result you are hoping for, but basics first
Fuel, when you pull the plug, have a new one ready to replace, I would remove lines from pump and carbs and blow compressed air BACK to the tank, then I would install a temp clear fuel filter pre pump for awhile to catch the crap that is inevitably in the tank. I would run it from a temp setup first until you are certian about the tank
Replace the points and cap, as well as the plugs, it is cheap and easy and will make sure you are not dealing with failed or failing electrical components\
Good Luck

[nhdoc]

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

A '64 Mercedes should have a steering lock. Perhaps yours has been removed, disabled or broken.
Many German cars had steering locks by the 50s, including Mercedes Ponton cars and possibly even their earlier models. Even my '57 German DKW 3=6 coupe has a steering lock.

Happy Motoring, Mark

Sure enough my '64 does indeed have the steering lock after all...I just never engaged it and assumed it didn't have one but after I just tried it out it did lock up...I learn something new every day!

Thanks Mark!