Removal of the speedometer?

[Gregg Bambo Jr.]

My 1963 220 SEb trip odometer isn't working and I want to remove it to fiddle with it, or send it out for repair, if it is beyond my capability. The speedometer appear to be removable as an individual unit as opposed to later models that require the whole cluster pod assembly to be removed. My problem is that I have an underdash airconditioning unit that block access to the speedometer assembly form underneath. I thought maybe I could access the speedometer through the radio speaker opening but I couldn't figure how to remove the wooden speaker grill. I have tried getting to it from underneath on the tach side and removing the tach cable, but my hand couldn't even come close to reaching the speedometer unit. Looking at the backside with a mirror, it looks like the speedometer is held in place by a knurled knob holding a square U shaped clamp in place. I would assume that disconnecting the speedometer cable and the clamp should allow the speedometer to drop right out. Is there anyone out there with a similar airconditioned unit that has already accomplished this task? I hope your not going to tell me that I have to remove the AC unit!

[300SDog]

Your wooden speaker grill on the cab is probly attached exactly like the plastic grill on 220Sb sedans from the same vintage. There are 4 skinny metal dowel pins holding it in place that secure to friction clips in the dash. Possibly 6 since your speaker grill looks larger then what's on sedans. You should be able to gently pry it loose using a butter knife little-by-little working from the corners feeling around to find the dowels.

(edit: Extremely difficult DIY work that requires the hands of a surgeon not to do any damage since you're workin on cabriolet fine woodwork. And I'll betcha the rough back of the wood will drink tons of linseed oil after you've pulled it. But is it veneer or solid hardwood? If it's veneer then oiling it a bunch could loosen it up and wax might be better.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

I thought the older W111 dash grills were screwed on.
I'd be reluctant to pry on a wood speaker grill without knowing for certain what's holding it down. Even if you know it's fastened with clips, sometimes they will have a death-grip after being fastened for so long. (Or a previous restorer may have broken some clips and glued it down!)
Is it possible to remove the radio and reach in through there?

Your AC looks like the standard 'Kuhlmeister' hang-on unit. Usually there's 2 or 3 screws holding it to the underside of the dash. If it was installed to original standards, there may also be a lower bracket securing it to the heater. Can you unbolt the unit, without disconnecting the AC freon hoses, then swing it out of the way?

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Gregg Bambo Jr.]

Mark,
Thanks for the suggestion. I had already removed the radio to attempt access through that opening. Unfortunately there is a big support bracket to the left of the opening blocking access to the speedometer by any sized hand. In looking upward through the radio cavity, I kind of doubt my access would be much better through the dash speaker hole, if I could remove the grille, as the heater/vent controls occupy much of that void beneath the speaker. I also tried to access it from the left underside. Access to the tach is easy but trying to reach further across to the speedometer is restricted. I'll go back and investigate the possibility of lowering the AC unit. Seems like a lot of work to just remove a speedometer. Why do I feel every little thing has to work properly? It's just a 44 year old car!

[Emmerich]

If its like my 109, the whole pod comes out. Then you undo the speedo cable and remove speedo from pod.

[Gregg Bambo Jr.]

Emmerich,
How did you remove the instrument pod? I can't see any external screw/fasteners around the unit. Is your pod shape like in the picture I inserted in my initial posting on this thread? If removing the pod is feasible, that would permit easy access to the instruments.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

The W108/109 cars have all the guages mounted in a single, removeable, plastic pod. On the W111 coupes/convertibles the guages are mounted separately, and removed by unscrewing each of the knurled nuts to release each unit.
Proceed with dislodging the AC, for access to the speedometer's knurled nut.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[ctaylor738]

I have never done this on a 220, but I just finished the dash on a 113.

Are you sure that there are not two tiny screws near the front corners of the speaker grille? On a 113, they hold down the front, while the dash wood holds the rear and you sort of slide the grille out.

[ctaylor738]

I have never done this on a 220, but I just finished the dash on a 113.

Are you sure that there are not two tiny screws near the front corners of the speaker grille? On a 113, they hold down the front, while the dash wood holds the rear and you sort of slide the grille out.

[Gregg Bambo Jr.]

I took Mark's advice and removed the Kuhlmeister hangon AC unit under the dash. It turned out to be a simple manuever with only two bolts holding the unit in place. Once the AC unit was lowered and placed aside I removed the mounting bracket that was screwed in to the base of the dash. In order to provide minimum hand acess to the rear of the speedometer I then removed another bracket that held two electrical connector modules. I then removed the speedometer cable and then was able to unscrew the small "nut" holding a ground wire and the U shaped bracket. Out comes the speedometer!. The only complication was that apparently the speedometer had been removed once before and whomever replaced it must have lost the knurled knob holding the U bracket and replaced it with the small nut. The small nut made unscrewing difficult. Now I have to find a knurled knob somewhere in order to reinstall the speedometer properly. Thanks to all for the advice. What a relief!
P.S. There were no screws on my wood grille. Those of you without AC have a much easier removal task.

[300SDog]

Arguably you might want to skip the retaining nut entirely when you reinstall the unit. Or if you must have one then try a hardware store for a regular wing nut that matches the threads.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by 240Dog

Arguably you might want to skip the retaining nut entirely when you reinstall the unit. Or if you must have one then try a hardware store for a regular wing nut that matches the threads.

If you can't find a regular wingnut that comes close, the trick will be to find one with the proper size metric thread. Possibly you could use an SAE wingnut, but re-thread it to fit with a metric tap.
What I'd do would be to re-install the speedometer with the knurled nut from the tach, then install the regular metric nut on the tach until you find an original knurled one, so you won't have to drop the AC again.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[300SDog]

When did standard metric thread wingnuts become hard to find? I bought one to secure the 240D air cleaner cover just a few months ago.

But like i said, omitting the nut entirely is probly the way to go. In fact it's tradition on 111 sedans to hobart the securing nut because that one nut alone is the only reason you have to reach behind the dash for pulling the speedo instrument cluster. Never heard of one shaking loose without the securing nut.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

[QUOTE=240Dog;1370897]When did standard metric thread wingnuts become hard to find? I bought one to secure the 240D air cleaner cover just a few months ago.

Well, here in the DC area, it's generally easier to find office supplies than metric hardware. Most of the small 'mom & pop' hardware stores are gone and the hardware inventory of my nearest NAPA and Pep-Boys autoparts stores is really pathetic. And if I ask the kids that usually inhabit the parts-counters for something like a Grade 10.9 - 8 mm - 1.25 thread pitch bolt, I often get this blank stare, like I just asked for a space-shuttle part! The best source for oddball hardware used to be a nearby Sears Home Center, but that closed a few years ago and the closest one now is 30 miles away!
As for air-cleaner wingnuts, a few weeks ago I re-threaded a 1/4" wingnut to 6 mm to replace the missing one on my '82 240D.

Happy Motoring, Mark