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  #16  
Old 10-11-2007, 11:28 PM
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Maybe that unusual cavity isn't a big issue

That unusual concavity that is shown in the picture is in the vicinity of the intake valve seat.

The seat is obviously not falling out or anything.

It certainly had nothing to do with head gasket seepage.

The intake valves & guides are generally not a problem on these heads.

The finish in the region of the concavity looks like that feature/defect may have been there since the beginning; shocking as such a notion may seem.

I would suggest first checking the head for flatness. Even a rough eyeballing on a surface plate or with a good machinist's straightedge would give you a pretty good idea of whether you've got 0.010" out of flat or 0.030" out of flat.

Then measure the overall thickness of the head and check this against the spec for thickness. This will give you a pretty good idea how much material has been taken off the head.

If these two aspects of the head look good, THEN take all the valves out and see what you're in for on the valve job.

My experience has been that you're probably in for all new exhaust guides, but hopefully you won't need any valves; those are pricey.

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  #17  
Old 10-24-2007, 09:49 PM
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Last night in class, I measured the crankshaft journals and then polished them. Here are some pics.

Dirty crankshaft



Crank in parts washer for cleaning.



Crank in lathe for polishing



Polishing



Clean and polished journals

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Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.
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  #18  
Old 10-25-2007, 11:51 AM
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Wow, fantastic pictures! Thanks for the excellent post! The M180 seems like a great engine to learn on. Stout, durable and simple. I'm curious about the counterweight in the middle of the crank. I didn't realize straight sixes had any counterbalances, I thought they were one of the few common inherently balanced configurations (the other being a V12) Is this because it is a 4-bearing crank instead of 7 or am I confusing things? It sure does have a nice short stroke though compared to other cranks I've seen, I guess that and the cam are what keeps it happy at those high revs the rear axle demands. Pretty cool for 1951!

Perhaps I am biased ;-)
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Last edited by todds; 10-25-2007 at 11:59 AM.
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  #19  
Old 10-25-2007, 12:19 PM
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The engine in your car and this one are virtually the same.

What amazes me is that the instructor describes the extent whcih the Detroit car makers go to when a batch of engines is off spec. This includes having special offset bearings made for alignment purposes. Somehow I think MB would send the blocks back to the foundary to be melted into new blocks.
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Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.
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  #20  
Old 10-25-2007, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todds View Post
Wow, fantastic pictures! Thanks for the excellent post! The M180 seems like a great engine to learn on. Stout, durable and simple. I'm curious about the counterweight in the middle of the crank. I didn't realize straight sixes had any counterbalances, I thought they were one of the few common inherently balanced configurations (the other being a V12) Is this because it is a 4-bearing crank instead of 7 or am I confusing things? It sure does have a nice short stroke though compared to other cranks I've seen, I guess that and the cam are what keeps it happy at those high revs the rear axle demands. Pretty cool for 1951!

Perhaps I am biased ;-)
Check out a modern crankshaft. This is from the nearby performance forum.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~ortolan/300E_vs_C36_1.jpg
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  #21  
Old 10-25-2007, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Check out a modern crankshaft. This is from the nearby performance forum.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~ortolan/300E_vs_C36_1.jpg
Those somewhat resemble the spare 7-bearing M130 crank I've saved for my 250C.

As for the Fintail, if the original 220S head is beyond saving, might it be possible to use the head from the 230 engine (and fitted with the 220S double-row cam gear) that's in the car now?

Happy Motoring, Mark
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2007, 08:24 PM
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It's possible. Use the head gasket from the 220S engine and place it on the 230 head as a template.
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  #23  
Old 10-31-2007, 08:57 AM
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I measured the bores last night in class and I'm going to need new pistons, probably 1st oversize, 80.5 mm. Does anyone have a set?
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Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.
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  #24  
Old 10-31-2007, 10:37 AM
Brian Ostosh
 
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Warren,
how much taper did you mic?
did you use conventional mic of a true dial bore gage?
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  #25  
Old 10-31-2007, 02:18 PM
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The instructor used an inside dial mic, and measured about 7 or 8 thousands taper and wear. Just enough to require new postons and a bore/hone.
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Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.
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  #26  
Old 11-01-2007, 11:01 AM
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Interesting... how many miles were on the engine? Was it neglected or maintained oil-wise? Do you think the bad head gasket was the cause of the bores being off or just general wear/etc?
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  #27  
Old 11-02-2007, 08:38 AM
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I don;t know the mileage, but for a 40 y/o car, probably 250K or more. The inside of the engine was quite dirty, so was the outside, so i suspect it wasn't maintained very will.

The headgasket problem was really under tight bead bolts.

I'm looking for replacement pistons, 1st or 2nd oversize, 80.5mm or 81mm. I will know more after cyl 6 is rebored, it's the worst.
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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.
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  #28  
Old 11-02-2007, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbain5280 View Post
The instructor used an inside dial mic, and measured about 7 or 8 thousands taper and wear. Just enough to require new postons and a bore/hone.
It may be less expensive to sleeve and reuse the original pistons, providing they measure up to specs needed.

Tom W
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #29  
Old 11-02-2007, 09:40 AM
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I was also thinking that. Piston 6 will need some work and I'll check with the instructor on the cost of sleeves. Thanks.
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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.
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  #30  
Old 11-02-2007, 11:13 AM
Brian Ostosh
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 504
Ouch, the cost of sleeves, Diesel ok though
The material of the sleeves will not be comparable to the parent metal of a fine MBZ casting,
Their metals ARE superior.
There is cast iron, then there is cast steel.
Bore and hone, and new pistons.

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