W108s for Dummies - Proper, thorough inspection?

[WileeCoyote]

Hey all,


As some of you may or may not have noticed, I'm quite new here. Since coming to America last year I've gained an utter fascination for older Mercedes-Benz diesels and to some extent for old Benzes in general. After way too much research (or brainwashing?) I decided that I'll procure a W115 220D or a W123 240D as a first car (technically it wouldn't be my first one, but that's a different story). In the meantime I've been learning what I can about them before I actually get one so that I know what to expect of them and what to do in case something goes wrong.

Lo and behold, the bug has spread. My dad sort of caught it from me. Recently I found a 1972 280SE 4.5 for sale very close to where I live. My dad - who unfortunately is in the hostile sandbox again - sort of bit the bullet and is rather interested in it.
And so I come to the actual question: How exactly should I go about inspecting said 280SE for mechanical, body, chassis, suspension and transmission defects as well as originality that I would do differently than I would on say your average W123 240D? Suffice to say that my past learnings have thus far been concentrated on the oil-burning variety (hey, this one might burn oil too, though I sure hope not), which pretty much excludes the W108 in its entirity.


Viele Grüße,
Fritz alias WileeCoyote

[ABDow]

This does not directly answer your question, but this Australian link might be useful as a start.
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~adow/commonfaults.htm

[JeffreyNMemphis]

I have owned two W108 4.5 cars. Great car!

All the old Mercedes are vulnerable to rust. It is a Unibody car, so you have to make sure that the structure metal is not rusted.

These cars can be very expensive if you buy a very cheap one. It is better to buy one that does not need a long list of repairs. The list price for a fuel pump is $1,300.00.

It is better to get a car that is truly well maintained and driven regularly. It would be better to get a 200k miles car that drove 5k every year than a 100k car that has been sitting for 10 years.

Twenty years ago I bought my first W108 for $3200.00 (over-paid for a cheap one). I spent five thousand dollars on new tires, shocks, air conditioning, Blaupunct Stereo (I was silly then), new interior and other cosmetic stuff. The car ran great with new plugs and tune-up items. Then the engine started making clouds of black smoke under heavy acceleration. I did not have the $5,000 to pay someone to rebuild the engine, or the knowledge to do it myself. I had to cut my losses and sell for $3200.

[bwostosh]

Answer,
Find someone local who is experienced with these cars.
Local can mean 500 miles
But it will be worth the effort
It takes me about 4 hours to really assess a W108

[JiveTurkey]

Welcome to PeachParts!! I'm our resident JiveTurkey, champion of Beer.

[WileeCoyote]

Whoa, thanks for all the replies!

Taking bwostosh's suggestion, is there anyone in northeastern Kansas or "close enough" who knows their way around W108s? If I could get someone to come out here who is, I would really, really appreciate it.
Even if I can't though, I'll scour through the one I found as best I can. I found a good inspection guide for them in German (no problem for me to read as I can speak German anyways) and I've been hammering that as well as the section of a Bosch fuel injection troubleshooting book that's dedicated to the D-Jetronic system into my head. Hopefully then I'm reasonably well prepared.

Viele Grüße,
Fritz alias WileeCoyote

[Tomguy]

Studying D-Jet means you've made up your mind on a 280SE or 280SEL 4.5 I take it. Some 4.5 specific items to look for:
# Worn cams. More common on m116 and m117 V8s with neglected camshaft oiler tubes. Be aware that these cams should not be reground, but rather replaced.
# Timing chains. A bad timing chain can cause catastrophic valve damage, especially common on m116 and m117 engines. The stretched chain causes the guide rails to break from stress, and the cam “skips time” causing valve/piston interference. $2000 per side to repair, minimum. A new chain and guide rails is under $150, and takes about 4-6 hours for a novice DIY to do.
# Trigger points (if applicable) – Many 3.5 and 4.5 engines have dirty trigger points, causing hesitation when cold and poor running (the feeling of running on only 2, 4, or 6 cylinders).
http://mercedesw108w109.com/buying.html
- Like the Aus guide but tailored for the States.

[WileeCoyote]

Now that will certainly come in handy. It also goes to show that owning a W123 or even a W115 could end up being a (relatively speaking) much cheaper option. Ah well. Try convincing someone to buy a Mercedes-Benz diesel when gasoline costs less than diesel (for now), they like American Fords and aren't too willing to learn the finer points of Mercedes-Benz diesels citing their already existing knowledge of pre-TDI Volkswagen diesels as a pretense for not buying one; despite the fact that they last owned one well over a decade ago

Anyways, I'm going to look at the car on Wednesday, so I'll see then what I make of it.


Viele Grüße,
Fritz alias WileeCoyote

[vwnate1]

You didn't mention your Mechanical abilities so that makes it difficult to guide you properly .

DO get the car up in the air and look everywhere for rust !.

Insist on the car being stone cold when you go to look at it ~ be polite but firm ~ " If I touch the engine and it's warm , I'll walk away " .

When you go to start it , it should light right off instantly , no black smoke atall
some blue smoke maybe from wear or 12 year old oil in it .

Black smoke during heavy acceleration isn't cause to reject nor sell the car , it's just the D-Jet fouled up a bit .

NO ONE ever pays over $50.00 for a D-Jet fuel pump ! they're available rebuilt or you can simply match upo a brandy new Japanese one, it needs to put out 34 # .

Old filters kill most D-Jet fuel pumps and used ones can be flushed out backwards to serve for many more years .

W-108's are fun cars , kinda slow but handle pretty well and are really comfy .
W-123's are vastly cheaper and easier to maintain as daily drivers .

[pchbreeze]

Originally Posted by vwnate1

You didn't mention your Mechanical abilities so that makes it difficult to guide you properly .

DO get the car up in the air and look everywhere for rust !.

Insist on the car being stone cold when you go to look at it ~ be polite but firm ~ " If I touch the engine and it's warm , I'll walk away " .

When you go to start it , it should light right off instantly , no black smoke atall
some blue smoke maybe from wear or 12 year old oil in it .

Black smoke during heavy acceleration isn't cause to reject nor sell the car , it's just the D-Jet fouled up a bit .

NO ONE ever pays over $50.00 for a D-Jet fuel pump ! they're available rebuilt or you can simply match upo a brandy new Japanese one, it needs to put out 34 # .

Old filters kill most D-Jet fuel pumps and used ones can be flushed out backwards to serve for many more years .

W-108's are fun cars , kinda slow but handle pretty well and are really comfy .
W-123's are vastly cheaper and easier to maintain as daily drivers .

Good points. My fuel pump/filter looked good when it was in the air but I would like to do a preventative move and flush out the filter anyways. How do you recommend I flush it? It'll be in my garage...would it be ok to connect the tank to the fuel pump and then out to the fuel pump (backwards)?

[vwnate1]

I never do this on the car as it's extremely sensitive to the slightest bit of dirt.....

I dismount & clean the exterior of then pump then attach two short hoses and dunk them into a clean pan of fresh fuel (here in KHalifornia we no longer have Gasoline , we have " Motor Fuel " shyte) then connect it reverse polarity , it'll run and puke out some nasty crud....

Job all done , re-install with a new filter and it'll instantly gain several horsepower and start faster too .

FWIW ,. most every part of the (in)famous D-Jetronic FI system has tiny screens when the hoses connect and after a few years there's ALWAYS bits of crud and rust in these screens , taking the time to clean them yields significant rewards .

[WileeCoyote]

A quick question before I go look at the car tomorrow. Would someone please tell me where exactly I can find the engine number, transmission number and chassis number?

WileeCoyote