Picking up W108 - 71 280SE

[Palolo]

Hi all,

I wanted to introduce myself and let you all know how much I have enjoyed reading through this forum over the past 6 weeks or so since it started looking likely that a W108 280SE would become mine.

The likelihood of it becoming mine are increasing, so I thought it was time to say hi and ask a few questions that I haven't seen covered lately.

The Good: the car starts, runs and is 99% rust free. Rockers, floors trunk and shock tower mounts are solid. It is a CA (blue plates) car. Interior is rip/tear free, and appears to be bamboo color. Headliner is 99%, only a few dark discoloring marks around the front courtesy lamp. Doesn't look like there's a lot of monkey wiring going on. Defrost blower & controls work.

The Bad: the paint is a faded respray. Original was tobacco brown, but the respray either had, or faded to a more maroonish color. Stone chips and the odd 3-4mm bare steel rust spot next to the chrome grille. A/C inoperative; interior fan blows, but has a card or piece of paper stick in the cage. No cooling. One chrome overrider is starting to rust. Rear window seal has a small leak up top, middle, I think. Car smells like gas while driving. No discernible leak. Trans: shifts fast (quickly after starting to roll) and doesn't kick-down. Linkage pops off by firewall, some kind of ball pops off when engaging park. Groaning/ rhythmic noise from rear portion of the car. Will have to track it down. Wood trim crazed. (windshield bow and door surrounds). Center speaker grille is black plast-ick.

The Ugly: some kind of Pioneer/Alpine radio. Brakes: only front left seems to be working. Runs out of oomph. Could be the disconnected vacuum line leading to distributor. Vinyl trim piece across top of windscreen is oily/sticky. Foam pad under hood is crumbly.

My observations:

Oil pressure gauge goes up to top at startup, then slowly drops and then fluctuates a bit. Seems normal for a Benz. Temp is between 175 and the line above it, and in traffic will sit on or just a hair above the line above. No sure where it should sit. Odo is out. Reads 86,xxx. Flash to pass is not working, but high beams with stalk-forward is ok. Seatbelts are static hook and cam arrangement. Ugh.

My concerns: the groaning sound from the rear. A few bare/ rust spots 3-4mm here and here. Fuel smell. No power. Funky seatbelts.

So... Do I pursue it and make in mine? I was going to trade my very nice 75,000 mile 1992 BMW 535i for it, even stevens, but there is so much right with the BMW and so much not right with the Benz that I am tempted to just offer money for the Benz and keep my BMW. But my heart says it is ok to trade a 20 year old reliable tank for a 40 year of reliable tank. My head says run away, the BMW Has so much going for it, but the Benz doesn't, it has so many things wrong with it, for now. I just can't justify trading my reliable daily ride for at his car in this state with no brakes.

Opinions (on whether I should take this on, or trade a fully functioning car for it) and feedback are welcome.... Thanks a ton!

Patrick in Hawaii

1. The car out front
2. Dashboard wood bow with crazing
3. Driver's dash
4. Engine D/S
5. Trunk lower corner rust (pretty much the only rust I found on the car, save for "surface spots" and stone chips up front.

[Adler]

welcome to the best forum for vintage Mercedes,we await your photos of the w108
regards
Ad

[Palolo]

More pics of the car...

1. Build plate
2. Rusty over rider (others are good)
3. Seatbelts installed upside down, mostly.
4. Left rear shock tower
5. Right rear shock tower

[Palolo]

So I think this 280 has a lot of potential, I have seen folks start with far less to work with and end up with nice cars.

I think I'll make a low offer on this Benz and keep my 535i as a daily driver... (This likely means the 72 Fiat 500L project gets bumped out of the carport, and the 93 Land Rover 110's firewall replacement gets delayed again. Such is life when one loves old quirky vehicles.)

And a few more pics...
1. Binnacle: all seems to work
2. AC Blows on "high" only, not cold and not sure if compressor engages.
3. Power window switches. What does the middle one do?
4. Winscreen surround: The vinyl leather pad across the top of the windscreen is oily/sticky. Is that a terminal condition?
5. Pedal cluster. No surprises, but a lot of rods going down alongside column.

[Travis_k]

I agree, buy it and keep something reliable to drive if you have the space. That is one of the cars I want to get sometime soon (along with a w111 and w116 lol).

[uprightfan]

This car will cost a fair amount to fix all the hidden issue, and to make it a daily driver. Best to keep the BMW, and make a very low offer for this car. It is shocking how cheap you can get a W108 for, so please bargain hard.

Parts are quite expensive, so use that as a bargaining tool. Just price up some of the items like calipers and discs now, and then say to the owner "well, brakes alone will be....$$".

Also, you mentioned a knocking sound in the back of the car. Without hearing it, you may be amazed to find out it is a wheel bearing. They seem to go out a lot on this model. The klunk when they are needing replacement.

Overall, looks like a car worth rescuing.

Happy to help.

[uprightfan]

By the way, I just bought these seat belts, and they are such a huge improvement. It really is odd: it makes the car more pleasurable to drive!

3 Point Retractable Seat Belt With End Release Button 18 Inch Cable : Replacement Seatbelts, Seat Belts, Retractable Seat Belts, and Seatbelt Extenders @ SeatBeltsPlus.co

The part number is WSCH14134C-18

[Adler]

nice car to restore .

[EurekaBenz]

Originally Posted by Palolo

Hi all,

I wanted to introduce myself and let you all know how much I have enjoyed reading through this forum over the past 6 weeks or so since it started looking likely that a W108 280SE would become mine.

The likelihood of it becoming mine are increasing, so I thought it was time to say hi and ask a few questions that I haven't seen covered lately.

The Good: the car starts, runs and is 99% rust free. Rockers, floors trunk and shock tower mounts are solid. It is a CA (blue plates) car. Interior is rip/tear free, and appears to be bamboo color. Headliner is 99%, only a few dark discoloring marks around the front courtesy lamp. Doesn't look like there's a lot of monkey wiring going on. Defrost blower & controls work.

The Bad: the paint is a faded respray. Original was tobacco brown, but the respray either had, or faded to a more maroonish color. Stone chips and the odd 3-4mm bare steel rust spot next to the chrome grille. A/C inoperative; interior fan blows, but has a card or piece of paper stick in the cage. No cooling. One chrome overrider is starting to rust. Rear window seal has a small leak up top, middle, I think. Car smells like gas while driving. No discernible leak. Trans: shifts fast (quickly after starting to roll) and doesn't kick-down. Linkage pops off by firewall, some kind of ball pops off when engaging park. Groaning/ rhythmic noise from rear portion of the car. Will have to track it down. Wood trim crazed. (windshield bow and door surrounds). Center speaker grille is black plast-ick.

The Ugly: some kind of Pioneer/Alpine radio. Brakes: only front left seems to be working. Runs out of oomph. Could be the disconnected vacuum line leading to distributor. Vinyl trim piece across top of windscreen is oily/sticky. Foam pad under hood is crumbly.

My observations:

Oil pressure gauge goes up to top at startup, then slowly drops and then fluctuates a bit. Seems normal for a Benz. Temp is between 175 and the line above it, and in traffic will sit on or just a hair above the line above. No sure where it should sit. Odo is out. Reads 86,xxx. Flash to pass is not working, but high beams with stalk-forward is ok. Seatbelts are static hook and cam arrangement. Ugh.

My concerns: the groaning sound from the rear. A few bare/ rust spots 3-4mm here and here. Fuel smell. No power. Funky seatbelts.

So... Do I pursue it and make in mine? I was going to trade my very nice 75,000 mile 1992 BMW 535i for it, even stevens, but there is so much right with the BMW and so much not right with the Benz that I am tempted to just offer money for the Benz and keep my BMW. But my heart says it is ok to trade a 20 year old reliable tank for a 40 year of reliable tank. My head says run away, the BMW Has so much going for it, but the Benz doesn't, it has so many things wrong with it, for now. I just can't justify trading my reliable daily ride for at his car in this state with no brakes.

Opinions (on whether I should take this on, or trade a fully functioning car for it) and feedback are welcome.... Thanks a ton!

Patrick in Hawaii

1. The car out front
2. Dashboard wood bow with crazing
3. Driver's dash
4. Engine D/S
5. Trunk lower corner rust (pretty much the only rust I found on the car, save for "surface spots" and stone chips up front.

As a BMW and Mercedes fan, I would absolutely keep the 5er and pick up the Benz with 'play' money. That way you have a dependable car to drive while you take your time with the Mercedes.
dws

[marko55]

Good luck with the 108!I am really enjoying mine!

[Palolo]

Awesome. Thanks for the responses; you know how it is with car nuts and the difficulty of separating heart and mind when picking up eminently restorable/drivable cars... "it just needs a little love and a few (ahem) parts..."

I'll go over the needs with the owner, which in my mind already exceed its value and hope he sees me as the ideal next guardian of this fine example of an MB.

Back to that "heart" thing; I grew up in a Benz family (in the Philippines) with a succession of them in our house, my uncles', and my grandfather all being MB owners. I believe I came home from the hospital in a maroon W114 220. I recall my mom getting her driving lessons in a white W108 280SE (that got passed on to an uncle to join his white W114 220). Dad then picked up a 450SEL, to join my grandfather's matching 450, and join his 300 Adenauer. A W123 280E joined our family for a spell, and my grandfather's 450 was replaced with a factory-stretched W123 since he was getting in his 80s and enjoyed the extra legroom. The last two MBs were a pair of wagons, an 85 300TD and a 90 W124 230TE/5. The 300TD is now owned by my best friend (also a true MB fan), and the 230TE is with my sister. Oh, I almost forgot: in our barn, literally, I have a 1966 Unimog 411.119 (head is off, but my best friend gave me the OM636 from his 180d ponton when it passed on to a new owner who just wanted the shell and interior) and my sister inherited a dark blue on blue leather W111 250SE coupe. Both are in limbo, awaiting rehabilitation, but both are family keepers.

So I felt I needed to add a little rational thought to the idea of "just picking up" a nice W108... :-)

Fingers crossed I can add this 280SE to the family fleet as a keeper.

A pic of the W124...after a few years of parked inactivity, it was just restored to service, and I just put some 16" Ronal R9s (to replace the 15" 15-hole wheels) and new tires on it for my sis. The ghetto tint is being made lighter a few degrees soon. We both love the 230+5-speed in the wagon body.

And my U411...

[Palolo]

Originally Posted by uprightfan

By the way, I just bought these seat belts, and they are such a huge improvement. It really is odd: it makes the car more pleasurable to drive!

3 Point Retractable Seat Belt With End Release Button 18 Inch Cable : Replacement Seatbelts, Seat Belts, Retractable Seat Belts, and Seatbelt Extenders @ SeatBeltsPlus.co

The part number is WSCH14134C-18

Ooooh! They have them in Purple! Boy, would I get in trouble with the karma gods for that.

But I could see myself switching from black to tan or brown, just to soften the look from the typical black belt.

Thanks for the link. I have saved it to my W108 bookmarks folder, which is growing in size thanks to this forum. :-)

[mercmad6.3]

Thats a seriously nice car but be warned ,in Hawaii that is rust waiting to happen .if you buy it ,the first job MUST be to get it professionally rust treated properly with a Wax cavity process . The rust protection on W108's was basic and not really effective. The salty air of the island will soon destroy it.
The fan switch in the top of the dash (top left towards driver) is only air circulation. The compressor and temp control are in the console in the middle. left switch normally controls the compressor and right switch is temp controller.
The air is effective only as long the gas use is NOT r135a . The condenser and evaporator are too small to work with it. Get the air con place to use a HC gas such as HC 12 or its equivalent .

[Palolo]

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

the first job MUST be to get it professionally rust treated properly with a Wax cavity process

Ziebart or Waxoyl type of treatment?

Would the old "diesel+motor oil+toilet wax rings*" mixture heated and pressure sprayed in to doors and cavities work? I suppose a good pliable undercoating for everywhere else, too.

I'll have to look to see if there are professional services here that do that sort of thing. I know dealers charge $500 and put a "rust protected" sticker on new cars, but as far as I know, they just put the sticker on and charge the money, not doing additional rustproofing work.

Thanks for the heads-up.

*yes, seriously, that's what Land Rover types use.

[mercmad6.3]

I would only recommend dinitrol, as diesel oil etc flows to the lowest point and is actually hygroscopic in that it absorbs water .you dont want anything which absorbs water.
What is used in germany is a product called Mike Sanders grease.
http://mike.british-cars.de/MSKF%20Englisch.pdf

If a dealer is going to charge you $500 you may as well buy the best stuff,a gun and so on and do it yourself plus save a ton of cash.
This is where you need to spray plus inside the chassis sections and the inner fenders upfront.
if it has a sun roof,check inside the sliding areas for signs of rust. the drains in front empty onto the sill section in front of the doors and this always leads to rust . The front jack points are the usual victims.