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  #16  
Old 12-07-2015, 06:05 PM
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I still say no to dumping oil in the cylinders and cranking it. Sure you can get it to run but in the long term you can do more damage.

If a cylinder bore is rusted and you manage to break it free, the rough bore will damage an otherwise serviceable piston. Sleeving a cylinder bore is inexpensive, sourcing new pistons for an older obscure engine is going to be costly.

There is also a chance that piston rings are stuck on the grooves, the ring will unevenly expand with heat and score the bore.

A valve can be stuck open ( usually exhaust ) and allow a piston to hit the valve. This could result in the valve shutting or bending and breaking a valve guide. And, it is possible for a cam follower / lash adjuster / rocker arm / push rod to come out of place causing damage.

At minimum the plugs need to come out and a bore scope inserted to inspect the cylinders.

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  #17  
Old 12-07-2015, 08:56 PM
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> At minimum the plugs need to come out and a bore scope inserted to inspect the cylinders.

The cylinder can be rusty below the pistons too. If it does not easily turn over, then I would not force it.
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  #18  
Old 12-07-2015, 09:04 PM
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I had an engine like this that I found sitting outside. It had been there for about five years.

It was am M-100 6.3 and it would not turn. I removed the plugs, poured in some Marvel Mystery oil and let it sit, upright in the proper v-8 position and not laying on its' side, for about a month.

Then I put a socket on the front bolt, stuck in a cheater bar, and gave it a slight nudge.

And nothing moved.

So I repeated the oil treatment and one month later it nudged a bit. Then I repeated the process.

Finally it moved a little. I removed all the plugs and s-l-o-w-l-y moved the crankshaft bolt. And it turned all the way over with no scraping noises.

I had also removed the valve covers and was watching the valves. If they stick it can cause big problems, so everything has to move in harmony.

And if you do get to to turning over, not running but just turning over, drain out the old oil and put in about five quarts of Rislone. Then turn it over and this will start to flush out all the old oil in the tiny pathways through the engine.

This will take some time, but it is worth doing it right.
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  #19  
Old 12-07-2015, 10:16 PM
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A fellow I know has had very good luck over the years by pouring diesel fuel into the cylinders and going through the same routine of waiting and nudging the crankshaft. Marvel Mystery Oil works great also. If the engine turns you at least have a CHANCE of an engine that will run OK, by not trying at all, you have zero chance of a good running engine without a total rebuild. An engine that turns is also easier to rebuild than having to knock the pistons out with a sledge hammer.
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  #20  
Old 12-08-2015, 06:30 PM
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Chiming with with a small update:

First let me say thank you each and everyone of you for your suggestions and information. It's been a big help already. I appreciate you all.

I found out a bit more information on the car's story although I have yet to confirm it's accuracy. From what I've been told the car experienced a small fire in the trunk in the early 70s. I do not know to what extent and if the cosmetic damage was repaired or not because I haven't been able to start clearing stuff out yet to get better access to the car. It's literally buried with stuff all around it, lucky very little stuff on top of It though. The owner who had the fire issue sold it non-running to its last registered owner, whom had hopes of fixing all issues but never had the time before his health turned for he worse. The car sat parked outside until around 77-78. He did have the car running and drove it about 2 miles to it's current location where it has sat untouched since.

I have the title issue nearly resolved and so far all is looking well. Once the title is clear I will start moving the stuff from around it and be able to tell more about its condition and hopefully be able to check to see if the motor is locked up or not.

Also, the tires are of course totally flat after all these years so before moving it I may try to swap out the tires (if I can get the car safely jacked up a bit) for some that will hold air to ease in the moving process.

So for now we're on a short hold, but as I progress I will be sharing photos here in this thread.

Also hopefully I can soon get some engine/chassis numbers and a definite year of production for it. Do you guys know if the MB Classic Center has the ability to give any known history on the car with those numbers? It would be great to maybe find out where it was originally delivered to and any other tidbits.
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  #21  
Old 12-09-2015, 08:55 AM
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New Guy Here With a True "Barn Find" W189?

Sorry double post.

Last edited by JuiceMan; 12-09-2015 at 12:21 PM. Reason: Double post.
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  #22  
Old 12-09-2015, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuiceMan View Post
Chiming with with a small update:

First let me say thank you each and everyone of you for your suggestions and information. It's been a big help already. I appreciate you all.

I found out a bit more information on the car's story although I have yet to confirm it's accuracy. From what I've been told the car experienced a small fire in the trunk in the early 70s. I do not know to what extent and if the cosmetic damage was repaired or not because I haven't been able to start clearing stuff out yet to get better access to the car. It's literally buried with stuff all around it, lucky very little stuff on top of It though. The owner who had the fire issue sold it non-running to its last registered owner, whom had hopes of fixing all issues but never had the time before his health turned for he worse. The car sat parked outside until around 77-78. He did have the car running and drove it about 2 miles to it's current location where it has sat untouched since.

I have the title issue nearly resolved and so far all is looking well. Once the title is clear I will start moving the stuff from around it and be able to tell more about its condition and hopefully be able to check to see if the motor is locked up or not.

Also, the tires are of course totally flat after all these years so before moving it I may try to swap out the tires (if I can get the car safely jacked up a bit) for some that will hold air to ease in the moving process.

So for now we're on a short hold, but as I progress I will be sharing photos here in this thread.

Also hopefully I can soon get some engine/chassis numbers and a definite year of production for it. Do you guys know if the MB Classic Center has the ability to give any known history on the car with those numbers? It would be great to maybe find out where it was originally delivered to and any other tidbits.
At one time the Classic Center would provide you with what was called the cars 'Birth Certificate' but I understand they no longer do this. This consisted of a lot of paperwork but what most folks wanted was a copy of the original window sticker.

But window stickers were not a required thing until after the passage of the 'Monroney Sticker' law in 1958. So before then window stickers like we know today did not exist.

And if the car was special ordered it likely would not have had one even after the passage of the law.

There would be a data card, and you might be able to find this in the car tucked in the springs under the front passenger seat, but it will be fragile and hard to read.

But there is a lot of info out there about these cars now, so once you post the VIN there is a good chance you will get a lot of info from those of us that have these resources or know where to find them.
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  #23  
Old 12-09-2015, 12:30 PM
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And this 'fire in the trunk' may be a very good thing.

A small fire could have burnt the wiring going to the fuel pump, which is electric and is located under the car on the right side and just behind the rear axle.

If the wiring is burned through and the fuel pump is not getting power this would explain the non-running nature of the car. There is also the chance that the grounding wire is burned through and this would kill the power to the fuel pump. A lot of stuff is grounded through this one point in the trunk which is later cars is located on the left side of the car in the trunk area.

This fuel pump power thing is easy to test for. When you get it uncovered just drop in a battery and turn the ignition key to the first position. This should energize the electrical system and send power to the fuel pump. You can hear these run if everything else is still.

If all is silent then check for power to the fuel pump. If none then start there.

Even better would be to disconnect the wiring to the fuel pump and then check to see if you are getting voltage to the pump.

All in all this could be an easy fix.
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  #24  
Old 12-09-2015, 05:05 PM
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Location: Alhambra California
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Don't be surprised if the brakes are locked up not allowing the car to roll. Sometimes a large hammer struck on the brake drums will free them but more often than not the drums will need to be removed in order to get them to turn. You can also spray penetrating oil into the brake drums (I am recommending this
as the brake shoes will need to be replaced or relined anyway in order to have a good braking car). The other option is to rent or buy a set of 4 wheel dollies and place each wheel on a dolly and roll the car with the dollies.

Last edited by BWhitmore; 12-09-2015 at 07:03 PM.
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  #25  
Old 12-09-2015, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWhitmore View Post
Don't be surprised if the brakes are locked up not allowing the car to roll. Sometimes a large hammer struck on the brake drums will free them but more often than not the drums will need to be removed in order to get them to turn. You can also spray penetrating oil into the brake drums (I am recommending this
as the brake shoes will need to be replaced or relined anyway in order to have a good braking car). The other option is to rent or buy a set of 4 wheel dollies and place each wheel on a dolly and roll the car with the dollies.
FInding new brake shoes, or pads as the case may be, will be hard and expensive but there are services out there that will reline your brakes.

Up until the early 60's this was a common practice. Shoes were made to be relined as making the steel part of the shoes was considered the expensive part.

Check out the services section of Hemming's Motor News for a place that will do this.
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  #26  
Old 12-10-2015, 01:42 PM
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Location: Houston, Texas
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Hi Juiceman,

I am waking a 1962 Mercedes 220 from a thirty year slumber. You are going to have similar issues, old bad gas to be drained, clean gas tank, fuel level sender, etc.

Forum members have contributed some insightful thoughts that have helped me develop my to-do list. Have a look at the thread here --> http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/vintage-mercedes/371180-introducing-dolly-1962-fintail-220b.html

Anything made of rubber to seal fuel, brake fluid, oil or coolant is suspect and critical for safety. Windshield seals and weather stripping for doors and trunk are other items that will crack and break when you touch them. Hoses, belts and tires are not that expensive or hard to find. There are grease fittings in various locations on the chassis that will need attention. The steering box and transaxle lubricants want attention.

Does your car have automatic or manual transmission? I just replaced the hydraulic master clutch and slave cylinders and fluid line on my car to make the clutch work properly.

I am happy for you. Thank you for sharing. It is fun to live vicariously through other members cool projects.

Best regards,

Jeffrey
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  #27  
Old 12-10-2015, 04:54 PM
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New Guy Here With a True "Barn Find" W189?

Because we all love photos I have a few more to share with you guys, I was able to get a little better access to the car today but still not very good. I did manage to get the hood and the trunk open though. Here are some photos..... I'll post in a few hours about some other observations I made.

Please keep in mind that the lighting in this barn is terrible. In fact there's very little (no electricity) most of these were taken via lighting from a flashlight!

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Here's a shot of the fuel pump area through the trunk. Sorry about the quality.

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  #28  
Old 12-10-2015, 09:35 PM
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First and foremost thank you to everyone for the continued insight and knowledge you are sharing with me and for following along on my journey.

Okay after looking it over some more today here are some observations I have made. I still can't get good access to because the barn it's in has literally been built around (expanded) the car and in order to get it out one side of the building will have to be disassembled and the car will be have to be pulled out. There is no way to get a rollback or dolly into where it is at unfortunately. So my current plan is to carefully Jack the car up one corner at a time and pull each tire/wheel off and check to see if the brakes are locked up and while I'm at it I will try to replace each tire with a used one of some sort that will at least hold air to aid the car in moving out..... It's currently sunk down to where there's only about 3" between the ground and the floor boards of it. When I pull it out I'm going to figure out a setup to help distribute the weight of it as bet as possible (not just pull on one central location)

I was able to get into the trunk (unfortunately the lock cylinder is totally missing) and other than the spare tire well being rusted through everything else actually looked pretty darn solid. Underneath the fuel access panel it looks as if the wiring for the pump had been replaced and the entire trunk looks to have been repainted by hand however I've seen worse jobs before..... The only clues to a fire are the replaced wiring and the paint and the level shelf behind the back seat is missing entirely (didn't see any remnants of it from possible deterioration either) otherwise everything looks pretty good.

Got into the engine baby surprisingly easy, everything looked great in there and I is t notice anything missing other than a battery (which I'm very happy about! No corrosion!) didn't have the room to check to see if the crank would turn or not. Odometer shows around 35k miles which very well could be accurate however I have no current way to verify that.

On the interior the seats appear to not have any tips or tears however of course they are covered in mildew and mold. The door panels are pretty rough and so is the headliner. I took a quick look under the passenger side seat for a data card and didn't see anything but I wasn't very thorough. All knobs, levers and switches on the dash do seem to move fine. Some of the wiring underneath the dash is hanging down but not a large amount. Original Becker AM radio is in place. All the wood on the dash is pretty rough and of course needs complete refinishing.

From the outside the rockers have some rust but I believe they are totally salvageable without major work. Probably very little patching even although as we know looks can be deceiving. There is a dent in the driver's front fender that could probably be pulled out.

All glass is fully intact and the only crack seems to be in the windshield. Driver's side rear view mirror is missing and passenger side wiper arm is missing.

All in all the car appears to have tremendous potential but I have yet to get to examine the floors of it or the underbody, I'm really hoping that the frame isn't rusted beyond repair.

I estimate it will be probably 3-4 months before I am able to remove it from the barn and get it into my garage.
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  #29  
Old 12-11-2015, 02:43 PM
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The recommended treatment for the rubber seals and weather stripping at this time was to apply a coating of glycerin. You might get a small bottle and try it on a piece of weather stripping that looks like it might respond to see what effect it has on bringing it back.

This old weather stripping just soaks this stuff up so put it on slowly and let it soak in.

And it might not work. But if it does use it anyplace you can as it is easier than installing new rubber. The rubber compounds dry out and somehow the glycerin restores the 'liquid' content to the rubber.

This little tip is going to be like a lot of things on this car: You will not know what really works until you try the thing and see if it works.

And hang on to that battery hold down frame in the trunk. These are almost impossible to find since so many of them were just eaten away by the battery tech of the times.
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  #30  
Old 12-11-2015, 07:46 PM
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Take the spare rim and get a tire on it. Then swap that for a dead rear wheel and to the next one. Take the drums off carefully, they are going to cost an amazing amount of money. You can get away with leaving them off if you replace them with a stack of washers that make up the thickness so you can bolt the rims back on. A sign on the dash saying "no brakes. Keep the wheels chocked at all times" would be a good idea if go that route.

After you get it rolling, you have two options. The one I strongly suggest you take is to sell the car, take cash and feel glad that you passed the car onto somebody. The other option requires you to be prepared to spend a good deal of money. The positive side to that second option is that if you want to get your hands dirty, you sure will. Also as the others have said be exceedingly careful with how you bring it back to life. Don't even think of turning that engine until you've pulled the rocker cover and the plugs. Make sure the cam is not rusty, make sure everything in the top side of the engine gets lubricated.

-cth

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