M117 into W114 engine swap?

[Admiral Ahani]

I have a w114 in my shop right now with the engine removed, because we were planning to put a v8 in it. And right next to it is the M117 5.6L engine. I can tell you that the engine will not fit in the engine bay, unless you make custom headers with about 1.5" pipe diameter, and extremely tight bends, and they might still rub the frame rails.

It can be done, if we were willing to cut sheet metal, but this car is extremely nice and we wanted to leave the body/frame original, so we aborted. Even with hacking the metal it would have been tight. We considered an M116 because it's narrower, but it would still need custom headers. Mind you, custom headers means small pipes with tight bends, which means low performance, and the M116s aren't very powerful anyway, so it became pointless. Then we considered the M113, but even those are too wide for the W114, so same problem. Before you ask, the M119 is wider than them all.

The W114 can really only take inline engines or pushrod V8s unless you want to modify the frame. I'm happy to share my measurements if you're interested.

For our car, we decided to keep the stock M110, go with euro cams and headers, TBI, and MS for a start and perhaps more in the future. We probably won't be satisfied with the power but it will be a good start. If you're not a purist, I'd recommend the ford v8. I'm not a total purist, but I wanted to stick with a Mercedes engine with this W114 as well as my other projects.

[Don Andres]

Originally Posted by Admiral Ahani

I have a w114 in my shop right now with the engine removed, because we were planning to put a v8 in it. And right next to it is the M117 5.6L engine. I can tell you that the engine will not fit in the engine bay, unless you make custom headers with about 1.5" pipe diameter, and extremely tight bends, and they might still rub the frame rails.

It can be done, if we were willing to cut sheet metal, but this car is extremely nice and we wanted to leave the body/frame original, so we aborted. Even with hacking the metal it would have been tight. We considered an M116 because it's narrower, but it would still need custom headers. Mind you, custom headers means small pipes with tight bends, which means low performance, and the M116s aren't very powerful anyway, so it became pointless. Then we considered the M113, but even those are too wide for the W114, so same problem. Before you ask, the M119 is wider than them all.

The W114 can really only take inline engines or pushrod V8s unless you want to modify the frame. I'm happy to share my measurements if you're interested.

For our car, we decided to keep the stock M110, go with euro cams and headers, TBI, and MS for a start and perhaps more in the future. We probably won't be satisfied with the power but it will be a good start. If you're not a purist, I'd recommend the ford v8. I'm not a total purist, but I wanted to stick with a Mercedes engine with this W114 as well as my other projects.

Thank you, I have found bits of information on the web. None of it made me feel confident enough to go that route. According to one builder using all R107 parts makes it "almost" a drop-in..... WTF does "ALMOST" mean?

I'm thinking it still means opening up a can of worms.

Member coasttocoast pointed me in a different direction - Ford 2.3L Ecoboost inline 4! Small, powerful, fuel efficient and probably 100lbs lighter than the M110. Any late model Mustang could be a donor IF that combination fits into the W114 engine bay. After the summer I'll look into this seriously.

[Mike D]

A.L.M.O.S.T.

Another Laborious Mistake Others Shouldn't Try.

[Don Andres]

Originally Posted by Mike D

A.L.M.O.S.T.

Another Laborious Mistake Others Shouldn't Try.

That makes sense....

[Admiral Ahani]

Originally Posted by Don Andres

Thank you, I have found bits of information on the web. None of it made me feel confident enough to go that route. According to one builder using all R107 parts makes it "almost" a drop-in..... WTF does "ALMOST" mean?

I'm thinking it still means opening up a can of worms.

Member coasttocoast pointed me in a different direction - Ford 2.3L Ecoboost inline 4! Small, powerful, fuel efficient and probably 100lbs lighter than the M110. Any late model Mustang could be a donor IF that combination fits into the W114 engine bay. After the summer I'll look into this seriously.

I acquired R107 headers per what I read online. They don't give you enough room to get the M117 into the W114.

I also acquired 380SE (M116) headers. These and the R107 450SL headers are both smaller than the 560SEL headers, but not by enough, not even close. So anyone who says R107 parts are all you need to do this swap is just speculating and has not actually done it.

An inline 4 should be able to fit. You need to figure out what transmission you're going to use, whether it fits in the tunnel, and where the starter will be located and whether that will hit anything. I think those would be the main worries. Good luck.

[Don Andres]

Originally Posted by Admiral Ahani

I acquired R107 headers per what I read online. They don't give you enough room to get the M117 into the W114.

I also acquired 380SE (M116) headers. These and the R107 450SL headers are both smaller than the 560SEL headers, but not by enough, not even close. So anyone who says R107 parts are all you need to do this swap is just speculating and has not actually done it.

An inline 4 should be able to fit. You need to figure out what transmission you're going to use, whether it fits in the tunnel, and where the starter will be located and whether that will hit anything. I think those would be the main worries. Good luck.

So much for 'almost drop-in'.....

Thanks for confirming this! Some cut into the frame rails to make it fit but still requires custom headers. Too tight for my taste. Check out this thread I found:

1976 Mercedes 240D M117 5.5 liter | Retro Rides

[Admiral Ahani]

I love that thread and I love that guy's project! Every time I see it again, I want to try it again myself, but every time I get back to my shop and see the car, I just don't want to go through with the super tight headers and solid engine mounts (to prevent engine rock).

Today I heard a car drive by, and it had a slight buzz and a turbo whistle. I looked, and unexpectedly it was a Mustang! So if even the pony cars are setting aside V8s for turbo-4s, then why not classic car guys too.

[Don Andres]

Originally Posted by Admiral Ahani

I love that thread and I love that guy's project! Every time I see it again, I want to try it again myself, but every time I get back to my shop and see the car, I just don't want to go through with the super tight headers and solid engine mounts (to prevent engine rock).

Today I heard a car drive by, and it had a slight buzz and a turbo whistle. I looked, and unexpectedly it was a Mustang! So if even the pony cars are setting aside V8s for turbo-4s, then why not classic car guys too.

Width might work but starter is on the driver side and might interfere with the steering box.



This is the 2.0L ecoboost. As far as I know the 2.3L is only different in stroke.

[Don Andres]

Oil pan may not work with the sub frame....

[rwd4evr]

I'm glad I stumbled onto this thread. I have a 450slc 4 speed drift car and I was thinking about swapping my driver train and suspension into a 250c for a pretty considerable weight reduction. Kind of a bummer it's not a drop in like I was hoping. I've got tons of SL and SLC I can hack up and graft parts into the w114 but I'm not sure it's worth it. Damn. W114/115 is the only chassis i dont have laying around to stare at and measure before I aquire this 250c and kinda fell in love with the idea. Can anyone take a pic of the w114 bay with no motor and some measurements?

As far as your swap goes if your thinking ls is still a possibility look at Nissan s13 swap parts. They are front sump and rear steer like our chassis. Canton makes multiple front sump ls pans that are sheet steel so even if they don't quite fit it's far easier to rebuild than cast aluminum. Get and old style side shift muncie or Saginaw 4 speed, they're small. Use a 4.8 truck flywheel and you have to get a deeper pilot bushing that sticks out of the crank a little, the ls crank face is I think 3/8 deeper than a old SBC. Run a deep r107 v8 gear and OD won't be missed. The wide ratio trans will still shred first gear just fine.

[Don Andres]

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

I'm glad I stumbled onto this thread. I have a 450slc 4 speed drift car and I was thinking about swapping my driver train and suspension into a 250c for a pretty considerable weight reduction. Kind of a bummer it's not a drop in like I was hoping. I've got tons of SL and SLC I can hack up and graft parts into the w114 but I'm not sure it's worth it. Damn. W114/115 is the only chassis i dont have laying around to stare at and measure before I aquire this 250c and kinda fell in love with the idea. Can anyone take a pic of the w114 bay with no motor and some measurements?

As far as your swap goes if your thinking ls is still a possibility look at Nissan s13 swap parts. They are front sump and rear steer like our chassis. Canton makes multiple front sump ls pans that are sheet steel so even if they don't quite fit it's far easier to rebuild than cast aluminum. Get and old style side shift muncie or Saginaw 4 speed, they're small. Use a 4.8 truck flywheel and you have to get a deeper pilot bushing that sticks out of the crank a little, the ls crank face is I think 3/8 deeper than a old SBC. Run a deep r107 v8 gear and OD won't be missed. The wide ratio trans will still shred first gear just fine.

I have abandoned my project for now. I simply don't have time to even do the research and I need my work space for growing my business. I love the W114/115s, especially the coupes but it is a daunting project to put a different drive train in. Check out this thread, it is the best I've seen:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/vintage-mercedes-forum/378762-69-230-build-w-lq4-swap.html

[Admiral Ahani]

I've been away from the forums for a while but I do still have my w114 and I will get back to it someday soon. The engine bay is empty so let me know if you still need pics or dimensions. Send me a PM.

[rwd4evr]

Thanks. I actually bought a w114 coupe with no engine in it so I'm good. It's interesting to see how much different the 107 engine bay is and how it's been reaaranged to suit the v8.