1969 280se 3 Cylinder Injection Pump - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cth350 · #16 03-18-2021, 10:08 PM

try a mix of acetone and tranny fluid as a cleaning agent. Real acetone, not "modern" nail polish remover. Don't do that in the house either. -CTH

fonzi · #17 03-19-2021, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cth350

try a mix of acetone and tranny fluid as a cleaning agent. Real acetone, not "modern" nail polish remover. Don't do that in the house either. -CTH

For the inside? Just curious.

I’ve cleaned up the outside and drained most of the oil at this point. So maybe cleaning the inside with acetone and trans fluid does make sense. I do have a gallon of real acetone. But at this point I’m feeling ready to fill it back up with fresh oil and give a try getting the injection pump to pump fuel.

I am assuming the Allen bolt on the side that looks like an oil pan plug is where I should plan on filling the oil before I bolt this back on the car.

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fonzi · #18 03-20-2021, 08:53 AM

Well, I filled the pump back up with rosella and put it on the engine. I need to get this parts car out of my driveway. Other projects await. Current status of this is fuel coming out of all six injectors, but haven’t looked at the spray pattern which I really want to do before installing the injectors.

Sugar Bear · #19 03-20-2021, 12:47 PM

Nice! Your persistence paid.

Good luck!!!

fonzi · #20 03-22-2021, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sugar Bear

Nice! Your persistence paid.

Good luck!!!

Well, for some reason I’m now only getting fuel from the 4 injector line when the injector is off. I was trying to get the car started Saturday and never got there. I didn’t put the fuel pump on and was using a Gatorade bottle that I’d squeeze to try and build pressure, but the pressure didn’t seem to make any difference, so I’d often let it be which surely resulted in vacuum with the bottle crunching down (not good, but on the other hand, it wasn’t hot so probably no cavitation).

I got a response on sl113.org that the plungers need to rotate in addition to going up and down. So I wonder if I broke something in there or am just not getting rotation. Honestly I don’t see how the plunger would rotate though. Hmm...

In any case, it’s possible that the IP will be coming back off the car later. I think my next step is hooking up one of the stock fuel pumps that I’ve cleaned. A k-jet fuel pump rig with a pressure bleeder is an option too though. I do have a freshly rebuilt k-jet fuel distributor that I’ve just rebuilt and a JY fuel distributor that both need to be tested. So that k-jet fuel pump rig is already going to be full of fuel and my hands will surely be covered in gasoline whatever day that is. So other than the benefit of testing the flow on these mechanical injection pumps, the k-jet pump seems like a decent idea to me, especially since there’s a pressure meter on it already.

In any case, I don’t have the time this week to mess with the car much, and that feels like a several hour process including trying to get the gasoline smell off my body.

So dormant this project goes... while the car cover in my driveway continues to shred.

Tx93086 · #21 03-26-2021, 11:53 AM

There is a check valve under the fitting where the injector lines attach. Earlier in the thread you said that blowing air in the #4 fitting inflated your bottle (sometimes). If the check valve is working properly it should not do that. Also, if the check valve is not sealing you will not get flow through the injector. I recommend removing the check valve and giving it a good soaking/cleaning. Once you take off the threaded fitting for the line, the check valve lifts out, but sometimes they are difficult to lift out. If it is the same as the Porsche, you can make a tool that threads on to the check valve and lift it out.

fonzi · #22 03-26-2021, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tx93086

There is a check valve under the fitting where the injector lines attach. Earlier in the thread you said that blowing air in the #4 fitting inflated your bottle (sometimes). If the check valve is working properly it should not do that. Also, if the check valve is not sealing you will not get flow through the injector. I recommend removing the check valve and giving it a good soaking/cleaning. Once you take off the threaded fitting for the line, the check valve lifts out, but sometimes they are difficult to lift out. If it is the same as the Porsche, you can make a tool that threads on to the check valve and lift it out.

Thank you!

I do remember the fuel bottle inflating, and can’t recall what I was blowing into, but agree it must have been the port for the cylinder line. That makes a lot of sense, and this is the first I’ve heard of this concept of this check valve. I really appreciate it because it sounds like it could potentially alleviate the need to remove the injector pump from the motor again.

It sure would be nice if I had a line wrench that would fit over an individual line and not make it so I’d have to basically remove all the lines from the IP to get to the middle.

Maybe it’s time to buy some new line wrenches (better than my broken HF ones).

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fonzi · #23 03-27-2021, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tx93086

.

Tx93086 , I am impressed by you and the fact that you knew what I did better than I myself did, and the fact that I have been working on this for weeks now. For you to have found this paragraph I wrote in this thread, and hone in on that fact, I can’t tell you how impressed I am. I am dumbfounded honestly. You are amazing. I have high hopes of your suggested cause of the problem being my exact problem. Unfortunately, I am tied up with work most of this beautiful weekend, and am very unlikely to get to working on this car. I thought I should share a picture of it after I washed it and used a hamburger wheel to grind off some of the rust bubbles and paint flakes that were/are shredding my car cover.

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Tomguy · #24 03-27-2021, 10:07 AM

Am I crazy for thinking "It doesn't look that bad" sitting there like that?

****, I know you have no uniframe rails left under the hood and no underbody etc. but that is one polished turd!

fonzi · #25 03-27-2021, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomguy

Am I crazy for thinking "It doesn't look that bad" sitting there like that?

****, I know you have no uniframe rails left under the hood and no underbody etc. but that is one polished turd!

I know. It feels very “artsy” and in some scenarios it could have positive value in all of its glory sitting there. I did add the driver headlight bezel from my parts bin, plus my labor to grind of the malevolent detached paint chips. But it might be cool to see someone put this piece of art to use somewhere. But then again, I might want somethings that have possible value to me like the triangle window frames, and the windshield, or to keep the damaged grill and hood ornament for my own garage wall, and of course the steel wheels are even bringing value these days. Also, in order for the car to not become even more of a biohazard, the floors would need to be patched to keep animals out. I think cats may already using it like a rent-by-the-hour motel room.

fonzi · #26 05-06-2021, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tx93086

There is a check valve under the fitting where the injector lines attach. Earlier in the thread you said that blowing air in the #4 fitting inflated your bottle (sometimes). If the check valve is working properly it should not do that. Also, if the check valve is not sealing you will not get flow through the injector. I recommend removing the check valve and giving it a good soaking/cleaning. Once you take off the threaded fitting for the line, the check valve lifts out, but sometimes they are difficult to lift out. If it is the same as the Porsche, you can make a tool that threads on to the check valve and lift it out.

Ok. I’m back at this car, and I’m now trying to make it run with a correct fuel pump instead of just a gravity feed, and I’m getting no fuel out of cyl 4 and I think you are dead on (as I have thought ever since I read this comment from you). Everything was running rich so that I needed to disconnect the linkage from the IP and open the throttle to get the car to “idle” which is more of a rough run than anything else. I did get it to idle itself briefly today though. Actually was able to walk around the car and see the exhaust smoke. But clearly no fuel on 4.

Old plugs on the left. Brand spanking new plugs on the right after maybe 30 seconds of running or so.

Here’s my rig:
https://youtu.be/fuds4uzNa9k

Edit:
I’ve got a leaking oil cooler that is very annoying. So I think I’m going to swap that with another.

I think it’s also time to address that check valve. I guess I just go digging and pull the check valve out. Right? Do I need to remove the IP from the car? Or just leave it in there and pull the check valve out?

fonzi · #27 05-07-2021, 01:57 PM

Dang thing has a ball that moves freely, but for some reason the check valve doesn’t check either way. I don’t know if fuel is flushing around it or it’s a bad valve. Disappointed, but knowing this is an issue with the IP, I simply know “it’s not a good IP” at this point.

I did one last compression test and put the old spark plugs back in and connected the injector lines to keep junk out of them.

I removed the fuel pump rig and am now going to move onto my 250se hoping I don’t have the same kind of problems with it.

fonzi · #28 05-07-2021, 01:58 PM

https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/de/mercedes-230-280sl-w113/07-09-14-mech-einspritzung-saugrohr-/07-b-einspritzpumpe/a0000741715-kugeldruckventil-280sl-p-3536

https://www.mercedespartscenter.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-pressure-valve-0000741715

Tomguy · #29 05-08-2021, 09:07 AM

move the check valve to, say, #1, and clean the #1 plug's carbon. Then you'll know if it's the valve, plug, or pump. Or #4 still won't fire and you can see it's wet, so cap or wire.

fonzi · #30 05-08-2021, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomguy

move the check valve to, say, #1, and clean the #1 plug's carbon. Then you'll know if it's the valve, plug, or pump. Or #4 still won't fire and you can see it's wet, so cap or wire.

Yeah. That definitely would be smart. Thank you for the suggestion. I have been assuming it’s the check valve, and I removed the fuel pump rig and decided “I’m done with this parts car” now that I know the injection pump definitely has issues.

I was hoping to get the 280se motor humming nicely, but that still wouldn’t mean I’d end up using it. I really just wanted to learn on this car, and feel I’ve learned enough. But now I see I do still have more to learn.

I am now trying to decide the order to proceed on the 250se 4-speed in my garage. I don’t know if the starter motor has been cranked in the last 25 years. I can’t even remember if I tried cranking the motor by hand in the last 5 years. I am assuming it’s going to be fine because of the condition of the engine bay and word of the seller.

But now I need to decide whether I should remove the injection pump from the car before I crank it again, or if I just run Techron through the IP.

I guess first I will pull all the hoses and filter off and figure out how crusty everything is in there.

Once I get the 250se 4-speed in my garage running, at that point I can focus on getting rid of the parts car 1969 280se. Until then I think it will be helpful to have the parts car in the driveway.

I need to get the 250se running nice enough to drive it into the sand floor indoor horse arena where I’m keeping my cars. Non-runners don’t go in there.