Kevin great post, I suspect the difference in mv readings was possibly created by a difference in humidity and air temperature. Actually creating a slightly different idle speed. Change in idle is equivelent to different voltages needless to say. I have been well aware of a phenomona for years now but am at loss to find a way to take advantage of it. Might try to stimulate my lazy brain a little later as it does impact milage greatly. Rather than check our method against what Sam presently has perhaps we can calibrate his pizeo sensor and amp from the milli volt method. Who would have ever thought this potentially possible even a short while ago? Sorry Sam just could not help it but all in fun. Now for the 300d. If the chain is well stretched and the cam has not been corrected to compensate it gets interesting. I would not expect the drip method and milli volt method to equate as well as your 240 but it might. Talk about hedging your bets. We are entering the area of custom timing that reflects the actual condition of the engine. So it might work out the same as the 240d but do not count on it for sure. Does not mean anything is wrong as then the milli volt timing is vastly superior in practical terms. It will be compensating for the cam being out. Really just a comprimise but better for the engines performance. Kevin you have basically spent the time to prove the concept and you were succesful. Fortunatly a lot of guesswork by many people has worked out exceptional well so far. .One aspect of dealing with these engines has probably changed forever. Hope we will continue to be as succesful with many other approaches. Kevin, I had to wonder when I did the first volkswagon if the plateau might resolve with instruments capable of 1/100th milli volt. But think as originally suspected might just be overkill. This should probably not be examined for say six months when we will know a great deal more I think. Again a well done guys. I also think Kevins results are well worth the twisted path and many posts to have gotten to. The people reading this thread have got to be aware it does not get any better. From concepts to conclusions. It could have so easily worked out otherwise. Or have been lost to history by people like Kevin and Sam not participating. I suspect more interested people will materialise with further applications experimentation.