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Originally Posted by OM616
I'm not sure what email address I have on this sight...
The Real Guy behind all of this is CTH... He is the one pushing to get something going, I would recommend you contact him regarding any applications..
He was referred to a flywheel manufacturer that might possibly be able / willing to produce a short run of flywheels a lot cheaper than I could..
My understanding is he, CTH, plans on using standard aftermarket bell housings such as those for a Small Block Chevy, and use an adaptor plate to mate the bell to the block..
I do not recall if the V12 bolt pattern is the same as the M119, or what there is available in regards to a manual trans fly wheel for a V12.. The MB flywheels are pretty small for the power so it will take quite a clutch to hold and the SBC bell will enclose a flywheel that will handle a 12 inch disk (the MB flywheel is only 12 inches total as a reference).
The problem we found with casting a bell housing is everyone wanted a different trans and there were not enough people who wanted the same thing to make it cost effective.. Using a standard bell that you can get from any speed shop will greatly reduce the cost and you can even get the added safety of a scatter shield if you get a steel one..
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I did read that you had a change of email address, but I had assumed that it was corrected. The email was not super important, it was just explaining my desires as to what I was looking for.
CTH did in fact email me about this, encouraging me not to simply wash my hands of it.
I do prefer the simplicity of a mid-plate rather than a total custom bell housing if I am going to attempt things. I had thought that this was going to be a case of using a bell that someone else had done the majority of the measuring and the actual production, just kick in some sample parts and a wad of cash. It was appealing to hear about a custom cast bell. If I have to go the route of the mid-plate I only need someone to measure it for me as I can have it laser cut from a CAD drawing. I do not trust myself to measure it right, though. This might mean bringing my extra motor to Minneapolis, as no one here seems to be able to run a CMM. First I am trying to get an in-law to do it, though. He is a mechanical draftsman.
I have not compared the bell patterns, but from what I read earlier in this thread the M119 is different from the M120, but the M113
might be the same as the M120. The conversation had dropped off after a maybe.
I am not super concerned with a clutch. If I have to go to something a little more aggressive, so be it - but I doubt I will. I think that the clutch will do better than most people think. Plus if I cook it, I can upgrade. There is that small matter of resurfacing a new flywheel...
I imagine that I will eventually pick up a bell for the T56 and make a mid-plate. If I go this route, I will cut out several so that I can help out some others and have a spare or three. After all, if it all goes well, I may do this more than once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGR
Looks like the M120 crank bolt pattern in the back is the same as the M117/119. So a flywheel could be made to fit all three engines. The bellhousing bolt pattern is very different though, but the auto trans on the M120 comes with a detacheable bellhousing if I remember well. so an adaptor plate in the back to adapt a trans like a T5 for ex. would be feasible. throuw out bearing could be hydraulic. You may need a double clutch though.
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That would be good, I have no problem with piggy-backing on someone else's flywheel order. Was everyone thinking of using the factory MB ring gear, getting teeth cut into the new flywheel, or something else? I was thinking of using the factory MB ring gear bolted to a new center.
The later (722.6?) transmission had a removable converter housing, but I have the earlier (722.3?) transmission with the integral case. I will likely use a GM bell on the T56 and a mid-plate from engine to GM bell.
I plan on using a hydraulic throw-out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM616
We looked at that and the 722. bells for the M119 were WAY TOO DEEP (...) the torque converters on the 119 must be huge..
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Yes, I think that the GM bell for the Tremec makes more sense than the MB bell does at this point. Bonus - they are easier for me to get!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cth350
The v12 wasn't on my plate because I don't own one. My goal is to construct a custom engine adapter that has either a bmw, Chevy or ford bell pattern. That makes things very simple. An equally simple custom flywheel that has would take a corresponding off the shelf clutch.
A custom bell is not necessary nor is it very interesting. For the m100 and m119, thereally is plenty of work to do to get a reasonable flywheel together that can handle the three variety of the ignition timing hardware required. Going with the bell from a getrag 265 or s420 means a small flywheel like Dave said and it means beefing up the clutch. Thankfully that is easy (one you have a flywheel).
Current status is that we know what not to do and we know who's going to make the flywheel. I need to get them some measurements, they need to give me a quote, and then it's a matter of cutting them a check.
-cth
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I do not blame you for not taking a large interest in something that in no way helps you - I am not enthusiastic about old Chevrolet small blocks for the same reason. Don't have one, don't care.
In theory I like offering options to people for the transmissions, but I would not do terribly out of my way to make that happen. If I wind up doing this for me I will offer it to other people as "take it or leave it". I cannot imagine using a BMW transmission, but maybe elsewhere they are easy to get.
I will watch for the flywheel information, though.
Like I said before, I wish you all luck. I think when it comes down to it I will be going on my own for this one, though. I hope if I am successful some other people appreciate my efforts and do the same combination.
Keep on keeping on, everyone!