Can of worms Johf, can of worms!! Do a search, its an on going debate second only to the oil debate on this forum. No one seems to be able to explain why a 12 year old benz has less rattles than a one year old one. Instead we tend to end up bickering and snapping at each other over the issue I think the bottom line is we are dealing with a two different eras and hence two very different companies.