20 gallons of 20:80 WVO and diesel = clogged fuel filter - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ak300td · #1 07-07-2004, 03:28 AM

Its true! WVO does clean the crud out of your fuel system! I've only run about 20 gallons of 5 micron filtered WVO mixed with diesel (20:80) and I've got my first clogged fuel filter. Lots of black slimy looking gunk!

I love cleaning those hard to reach places! And I love how easy it is to change filters!

TwitchKitty · #2 07-07-2004, 10:21 AM

Are you saying 20% WVO and 80% diesel, or the other way around?
How is the weather up there? What range of temperatures are you having while doing this?

Lars · #3 07-07-2004, 10:27 AM

After burning 1/2 tank of 50:50, my car would'nt start anymore. Filters were fine, the problem was with the IP. I think the WVO must have lifted crap that had settled over the years in the IP. Now the car starts and runs, but is still rough on idle (has been like that even before WVO experiments). Would Diesel purge help me out with this?

ak300td · #4 07-07-2004, 11:19 AM

Twitchy--I mixed 20% WVO with diesel. I was pretty careful about letting the WVO settle and solidify at our temps before cold filtering. Our temps have been between 50 and 80*F (too HOT!)

Lars--I don't know what would dissolve the old crud in the IP. Hopefully somebody else can weigh in with advice. I'd think this problem could affect anyone, not just veggie users. From what I recall, the new diesel will have the same properties of "stirring up the gunk" so this could be a very widespread problem when the new diesel comes to our shores. Good luck!

BoostnBenz · #5 07-07-2004, 11:52 AM

I didn't think that WVO had anywhere near the cleaning properties of BioDiesel (due to the methanol). I ran 10 gallons through my car here a couple weeks ago, probably a 50/50 mix. I do have a few visible specs of black (algae

) in the prefilter but nothing really surfaced or didn't have any problems.

ak300td · #6 07-07-2004, 04:12 PM

My prefilter had a decent amount of black alge(?) in it. What was impressive was the spin-on filter. I emptied it into a jar and couldn't see light through it! Totally black, with some floating clumps!

BoostnBenz · #7 07-07-2004, 08:45 PM

Wow. When I first bought my 83 the prefilter was kind of nasty, the point you couldn't really see through it anymore. The main filter was covered in a real fine covering of black particles, but I never checked to see what all came out. Algae is quite a plague, but I think mine is either now gone or very close to.

TwitchKitty · #8 07-11-2004, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BoostnBenz
I didn't think that WVO had anywhere near the cleaning properties of BioDiesel (due to the methanol). I ran 10 gallons through my car here a couple weeks ago, probably a 50/50 mix. I do have a few visible specs of black (algae ) in the prefilter but nothing really surfaced or didn't have any problems.

Did you run 10 gallons of Biodiesel or WVO?

psfred · #9 07-11-2004, 06:50 PM

WVO has large amounts of things bug love -- nitrogen (protein), phosphours, and edible oils. It's not a solvent, but if you have anything living in the tank, it's gonna bloom and make a mess.

Biodiesel is less trouble in the long run, I think.
Once I get the garage cleaned out, I'm gonna make some!

Peter

BoostnBenz · #10 07-11-2004, 08:02 PM

WVO, I finally have the bulk of the materials for the processor, hopefully tomorrow morning I can start making stuff up. I don't plan on having WVO ready to burn for another week or so though.

This reminds me, does the MB factory vent line have a filter on it to keep little critters out or should I try adding one?

#11 07-11-2004, 08:21 PM

I changed my prefilter yesterday after declining performance and found it substantially blocked by the black crud. This is after going back to almost 100% #2 diesel to get back to my baseline. I think I'll replace the spin-on filter too, as the performance is better but still isn't quite back to pre-WVO level. If that doesn't make any difference I can keep the present spin-on as a spare.
I just had #5 glow plug fail and I'm wondering if the use of WVO had anything to do with it. In a 1980 300TD, who can say?

joebiodiesel · #12 07-11-2004, 10:43 PM

Lars,
If your car is running rough after running SVO then you probably will need to replace/rebuild the injection nozzles. There are a number of reasons the nozzles can be hurt by SVO. Take them out and have them checked. Have them pay special attention to signs of the spray tips getting hot. You also should check the prechambers for carbon buildup.

Also, I woud recommend not running SVO through the small pre-filter, and the small main filter. Replacing them with a single, larger fuel filter is a wise investement when running Biodiesel and SVO. They both have a higher vscosity than diesel fuel and need a larger filter.

Joe

coachgeo · #13 07-11-2004, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by joebiodiesel
Lars,
If your car is running rough after running SVO then you probably will need to replace/rebuild the injection nozzles. There are a number of reasons the nozzles can be hurt by SVO. ....

Also, I woud recommend not running SVO through the small pre-filter, and the small main filter. ....
Joe

Joe IMHO your a bit off base. So is Psfred. Ive been active in the WVO board for sometime now and things as you describe I've never run across there as damning as you put them.

AK has not run enough WVO to hurt his injectors infact odds are he never will hurt his injectors if he runs WVO properly. With proper heating there rarely is injector problems associated with WVO. ESPECIALLY in an IDI MB engine. The judgement is still out on blended WVO but it looks very promising this way too.

Also, lots of WVO guys use small prefilters. Its an easy visual way to see what may be going on inside the screw on filter.

As to algae the most common time it seems to be a problem from what I have read is when someone buys a new used diesel that has sat awhile. This is before they even have converted to WVO. Some WVO folk religiously add a algacide to there WVO tanks but many dont and neither rarely have problems.

BoostnBenz · #14 07-12-2004, 01:40 AM

I think my injectors aren't doing very well but while running WVO the car runs perfect, why? Because the cetane of the fuel helps compensate for whatever the injectors are lacking. If you are running an unheated WVO system eventually there may be a coking problem but probably not.

I like the clear filters, I want to see what is going on in there! If anything I wish my prefilter were a little finer so I could really tell if anything were getting stuck in the main. If you filter the WVO right at a lower temperature with a fine enough filter it should clog in the sock filter and not in the car filter.

joebiodiesel · #15 07-12-2004, 10:10 PM

CoachGeo,
thanks for the courteous disagreement. admittedly I don't have tons of SVO experience, but I've been running Biodiesel for over 200K miles. I think my 300SD fuel filter is very small, but haven't replaced it yet (only put 2k on since recently getting this car). I am doing an SVO conversion on it as soon as I get a chance, and have a much larger filter, with a water drain, to replace it. I've run Biodiesel in some pretty cold temps (B100 at 20F is my personal record) and running a large heated filter is one of the reasons I've gotten away with it. I also like to use cartridge style filters because there is less worry about the glue coming apart when exposed to high temps, similar to what's been reported on spin-on style filters...although I haven't seen that one myself.

the reason I think Lars might have an injector problem is this: If you have an injector that has a good spray pattern when tested, but does poorly on a chatter test, it will still run reasonably well on diesel fuel, but will get the nozzle tip hot when run on SVO. The chatter test shows that the nozzle can close quickly, keeping the flame from approaching the tip. Kind of like the carb cleaner-match trick. When you stop spraying you let go of the top quickly and the flame goes out, if you slow the stream down the flame finds it's way back to the can. The same thing is easily demonstrated with a bad injector and a nozzle tester. If you overheat the tip the needle will start dragging when returning to it's seat, and then you have a motor that runs poorly.

In you defense; you are right about lots of guys running small pre-filters without troubles, so there is plenty of evidence I'm overcautious in regards to filter volume. I suppose practice is better than theory here.

Joe