Best orbital buffer for the $ (cordless)
 

Detailer dudes,

Any reccomendations for a cordless orbital buffer?

I'm not looking for a commercial type unit, but something that's easy to use, but not too cheap.

Thanks!

Just out of curiosity, why cordless? No access to line power? I have seen a 12V cordless unit at http://www.autobarn.net/pros12vcorbu.html .

I know the cord is a real PITA, but a cordless model has a hefty battery, short life time (50 min or so per battery) and to keep the weight down, usually sacrifice on the motor, gear train, and housing (the other heavy components). They do have a cigarette lighter adapter, but then it isn't cordless anymore.

Mequiers offers a compressed air model, but I don't see that this solves anything. Maybe there is a unit with a belt worn battery and short cord that runs along your arm to the buffer? That would be cool. Hey Makita, Porter Cable, you listening?

I have a hot outlet, but it's a pain. I'd prob be better off with an extension cord, if those suckers barely last an hour.

There's an idea! Rig one up and get a patent :)

I'll buzz over to Sears and see what they have. I want to get one today or tomorrow.

Thanks!

If you haven't already gotten one, I'd recommend saving your pennies for a Porter Cable corded model. If you don't already have swirls to buff out, you will, and you'll want the speed and power that a good unit provides. I use mine at least twice a year to get rid of the accumulated swirls that inevitably show up.

Griot's Garage has some nifty accesories that slap onto the Velcro on a Porter Cable random orbital buffer, like a hollowed-out foam pad for holding paint clay.

Thanks --- I've heard the Porter Cables are good. I'll check around. I'd use it on some of my old cars that have 32+ year old paint jobs, that need a lot of elbow grease.

400E,

What particular Porter Cable model are you recommending?

Have a great day,

Larry,
Mine is Porter Cable Model # 7336, which is their 6" variable speed unit. Got mine from Griot's, but I understand they're widely available at a lower price from power tool suppliers. It is made as (and called, in the manual) a "random orbit sander" and in fact comes with a vacuum attachment for its originally intended purpose of sanding wood. I would imagine it'd be available at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc., though I haven't looked there.

I really like it mostly because it's basically idiot proof, so I can't get into trouble no matter how hard I try! I believe that even if one were to lean on it for a long period it wouldn't burn paint due to the random orbital nature. It does make wax application faster, and is especially nice for swirl removing, though there is nothing you can do with a power tool you couldn't eventually do by hand (if you had the time, patience, and muscle tone to accomplish it). On the other hand, in about 2 hours I can go around my car and remove swirls, buff the polish off, then wax and buff it, and have great results (and not need to take gobs of ibuprofen for sore muscles!)

Steve

I have the POR 7424, and all the above comments apply - it is great. The 7424 and 7336 are the same basic body, motor, and features - the 7336 apparently comes with the sander and polisher 'heads'. Some sites say it is the new model # to replace the 7424 sander/polisher, which doesn't have the sander or polisher heads or vacuum attachment included - they must be bought seperately.
http://www.coastaltool.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/a/port/skinny.htm?L+coastest+wbnx8989ff924092+1019605220

Roberts tools advertises the 7424 for $95.00, which is where I got mine. The 6" polisher head is an extra $8.00, but don't bother. I bought the Mequiers velcro polisher head, which accepts the foam pads in a fast change mode (different pad for swirl, polish, and wax). A couple of hours to 3/4 day towash, deswirl, polish, and wax the entire car. Great!

I was talking to the owner of an excellent detail shop in my area and he swore by Porter Cable -- I'm sure they use the commercial version, nonetheless sounds like a good product!

I purchased the Porter Cable unit from Meguiar's, and didn't like it. I ended up returning it.

These units are basically detail sanders, and the collet is modified so that there is a threaded stud permanently installed. A velcro backing plate is provided that threads onto the stud, and your foam attachments stick onto the velcro backing plate.

I didn't like the Porter Cable unit because there is a clutch built into it that prevents the unit from spinning if any weight is applied. I know this is to prevent you from burning the paint and creating swirl marks, but it also prevents you from really being able to polish out any moderate paint defects or oxidation.

If your paint is good to really good, then this will be fine for you. If your paint has some scratches, oxidation, swirl marks, ect., you can use the Porter Cable all day long, and they'll never come out. Trust me. I've done a lot of detailing.

You'll also never see a professional detailer with this Porter Cable unit. They all use one of the better brands of a plain-old electronic, variable speed polisher, like DeWalt, Milwaukee, etc. The one that most detailers use is the DeWalt unit because the variable speed dial actually lets you dial in the exact number of revolutions, instead of imaginary numbers like 1-5, and you don't know exactly how fast you are spinning. In fact, every commercial shop that I've been to that supplies auto body paint shops and the like, carries the DeWalt unit, and they cost between $289 - $329. I shop at Sherwin Williams Automotive Finishes Paint Store.

If you go into a shop that sells products (commercially) to paint shops and detailers, they'll carry the professional detailing products, like 3M and Meguiar's, in one gallon jugs. They'll have more grades of polish / compounds than you'll ever imagine needing. On each bottle, the manufacturer almost always recommends which speed is suggested for each specific product. Most light compounds / polishes recommend in the 1,500 - 2,000 range.

Yes, it takes some skill using these kind of polishers, and yes, I've seen people burn through the paint. But they're not hard to learn to use, especially if you're used to hand tools, sanders, and woodworking (like me). The results are infinitely better than using the Porter Cable unit.

Well the paint on my Benz is very good for an 11 year old car, no oxidation and not alot of swirl marks. On the other hand, my older cars, namely my 70 Olds Toronado needs some help and I know detailing it with a good orbital buffer will knock ten years off it. On the other hand, I could spend 5 grand and have all the chrome pulled off and paint the car -- BUT I'm not ready for that yet. Rebuilding the trans is enough for this summer. Rambling now... but I'd imagine that detail shop I visited worked on very few cars with old paint, hence the praise for the Porter Cable. Thanks for the input Paul and others, I was in a hurry to buy one, but I'll bide my time while I sort out the trans issue.

Forums like this are good examples of how reasonable people may differ. I don't want to start a buffer war, but just want to say that I've had very good luck with reducing swirl marks using Griot's mildest polish and the Porter Cable RO buffer. And I have a black car, so swirls show up very easily.

I would also be very careful of using a straight (i.e. non-RO) buffer on a clearcoat finish without a fair amount of practice on a junker vehicle. It's pretty easy to burn through clearcoat if you're not very careful.

The other thing to think about is that professionals have a different agenda than us DIY'ers. Their main goal is throughput -- getting cars in and out quickly. As owners, we are often willing to sacrifice speed for safety, for example. I have also read that the "pros" will indeed buff out the swirls but in the process create lots of very fine scratches which they fill in with glazes. The car looks extraordinary after that treatment -- until the glazes wash out a few carwashes later . . .

Steve:

I would agree on that - I wonder if Paul's Porter Cable had a defective clutch, as mine has taken out swirls like a champ with Mequiers #9. The MB dealer scratched my deck lid last time it was in, and polished it out. Each time I wash it more fine scratches appear in the area they 'fixed'. I am going to do the whole car in a couple of weeks and see how well i can fix their handywork.

John,
Been there, done that. My dealer (when I used to go there for service) would of course wash and vacuum the beast for "free" after every $85 oil change. The service manager got indignant when I suggested that they created a TON of swirl marks when they washed my car by hand, and they even managed to scuff up the leather shifter knob with a hastily-applied vacuum nozzle.

It was a good thing, though, because I finally got off my behind and got a Topsider.

I wondered about the clutch, too. I think you may be right about that. Mine keeps on spinning no matter how much I lean on it.

Good luck fixing the dealer "fix." I'm sure it'll turn out very well. Too bad fine paint scratches and swirls don't show up too well in photos; it'd be nice to see before and after shots.

Steve

400E and Wear Bars -

Thanks a bunch for providing the counter point to those hesitant about using a RO unit - In reading through the thread, I would have written off the RO had it not been for your final comments. This is what makes this forum great. I respect what Suginami says about the 'truly professional' units but I also believe the pros focus on throughput and have the years of time behind the switch to control a non-RO unit.

After taking delivery of a number of cars from very good body shops (doing paint work) - I notice large, sweeping swirl patterns when viewed in the right sun light. I've always felt these are from the pros using non-RO units in a time crunch situation. I am glad to read the RO units work great for the weekend warrior - this is what I will purchase this spring. Thanks to JCE as well for the leads on purchasing the Porter Cable units at good pricing.

Is one orbital the same as another?
 

OK. What makes one RO better than another. I went the cheap route and bought a $20 RO job at WalMart and have had good success with it. My car is black (my 4th in a row) and I'm always fighting the swirls. Since I've always waxed by hand until now, I thought I was in heaven with the ease of use this thing has.

Now, after reading the thread, I'm wondering if the Porter Cable model would be worth the purchase as there are still swirl marks (and may be forever) that won't go away. I have been following the recommendations from Lee's FAQ but am always looking for a better way ;).

I think the price on the Porter Cable goes into the powerful hi torque variable speed motor, the adjustable counterweight system, the metal housing, etc. The removable handle makes for easy 2 hand use, as the main case is a comfortable fit to your dominant hand, and the right angle handle is up on the axis of the buffer wheel, allowing easy control. I don't even have to press down with the unit, just glide the buffer over the surface under its own weight.

I'm a big fan of RO buffers - they do a great job and are darn near idiot proof. While something mfd by Porter Cable may be the ultimate, I've been using one I bought at Sears - I think - for about 10 years. Cost fifty bucks, works great. Has a nine inch foam pad, uses terry bonnets. I can wax one of my cars in 45 minutes with it, and it does a nice job. I'm sure it vibrates more than a Porter Cable, and it's made of plastic rather than metal, but for consumer use it's just fine.

What's the best RO buffer? Probably the one that works best for you and you have the most confidence in. If you have a $20 Walmart special or a Sears unit and they work for you, may be no real need to change. John educated me about the features of the Porter Cable, but no doubt others can work fine, too. On the other hand, if you don't already have one, the Porter Cable might just be a good one to look into.

Deuce,
If you're not getting out all the swirls, you might try just using the different polishes from Griot's Garage. They come in 3 grades, 1, 2, and 3, and 3 is the mildest. You might try buying a bottle of #2 and #3 and see how that works. You use the #2 on the more significant swirls, then finish up over the whole vehicle with #3.


Wayne,
Thanks for the nice feedback.


Steve

Thanks for the tips Steve. I'm using Meguiar's #9 now and have, admittedly, only used it once (2 applications). I haven't had enough shade until now because the trees have been bare. If I don't have better success with #9 I'll check out the Griot's stuff.

I do have a question regarding the actual application of the swirl remover. Since this thread is regarding the RO Buffers I don't want to take it off track so have started a new thread. I'd love any comments. Here it is:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/detailing-interior/36527-can-polish-break-down-during-application.html

Thanks!

I may sound like a Piker, but I'd go to Walmart and get a $25 one. That's what I use and I'd put my cars finish up against anyone's. The more expensive polishers will probably last longer, but I can buy a half dozen of the cheapies to one Porter Cable.

Personally, I think the material you use and the quality of the pad have more of an effect on the finish.

Flame on

I went out and bought a $19 buffer from Walmart and the result was fantastic!! I read all the threads about the Porter Cable and I even contacted Coastal Tools about it. After weighting the $130 vs $19, I went with the $19 one. I figure for $19 and if it does not perform as advertised, I can always return it to Walmart and get my money back. They told me I have 90 days for customer satisfaction. But after I used it on my black ML, I was totally surprised. I did not put any polish on the paint, just wax and buff. I can imagine what the result would be if I polished it too.

The buffer comes with 2 pads, one terry cloth and one wool. I used the wool pad for waxing. Is the terry cloth pad for polishing?

Elau,

Right on brotha!

The best cover to use is foam. They don't gum up and lessen the chance of scratching...they are easier to clean too.