Hi fellas,
Quick question, I have been eyeing this 87 300td and i really want to buy it but the problem is I dont have a garage because i only live in an apartment. Lets say that the 300td is in mechanically perfect condition, would it start in the winter eventhough it doesnt have a block heater? (i cant ran an extention cord accross the street ) btw i live in wisconsin

thanks in advance!

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1984 190D 160,000 miles -sold
1992 190E 124,000 manual 2.3 -sold
2000 c230K 84,000
1995 e300 134k

Short answer:

If it's in mechanically perfect condition, it does not need a block heater.

Longer answer:

Ask the owner how it's been to start.

See if you can show up when it's really cold and start it from cold. Don't let the owner 'warm it up' for you, watch it from dead cold.

With a good battery, a good starter, all 6 glow plugs operational and good compression, it should start without block heater down to about 0 degrees or so. It may fuss, grumble, shake and rattle for the first minute as it warms up a bit.

Added thoughts:

Synthetic oil can do a lot to help cold weather starting of any vehicle.

Good luck.

Best Regards,
Jim

Show up on the coldest day you can and see if she starts. Open the hood first and feel around to see if the seller has warmed her up prior to your arrival. Be sure the engine/exhaust/radiator/etc... is COLD to the touch beforehand. Someone will correct me if I am mistaken, but I think the biggest factor in cold weather starting is compression. Unless you have a tester, the cold-starting-trial method is the only reasonable way to measure how she'll do on a cold winter morning.

Good luck!

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

Well these two folks have already stated everything I was going to mention. The cold start test is the best measure of compression without actually paying for a compression test. The 300D that I saw for sale which Wally (username: Hector111 ) has already purchased cranked up on Monday morning at 10:30am at 20F after sitting outside in very low winter temperatures for 72 hours. That was a good sign of excellent compression. I've been told that a diesel engine with good compression should be able to start without usage of a block heater down to about -20F.

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

A smart thing to do is carry a battery booster in your trunk. It gives you extra power for that first start of the day. I live in SE Wisconsin and ysterday morning was tough. I plugged it in last night and this morning was fine.
If you must use ethyr DO NOT remove air cleaner and spray it down the air intake. Instead a VERT SHORT shot up the plastic hose is it. The ethyr will slowly go through the air filter and help it start. Doing this daily is not acceptable. An emergency start to avoid a tow is more like it.

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1959 Gravely LI, 1963 Gravely L8, 1973 Gravely C12
1982 380SL
1978 450 SEL 6.9 euro restoration at 63% and climbing
1987 300 D
2005 CDI European Delivery
2006 CDI Handed down to daughter
2007 GL CDI. Wifes

Braver,

And I've been told the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale.

P E H

z3ds,

Without a block heater, there are cold mornings when you will not be able to get the Diesel started. Heck, in Wisconson in the winter, sometimes gasoline engines don't start. And we know they are easier to start than Diesel engines when cold.

P E H

Thanks alot Jim H, cscmc1, braverichard, and wodnek for the quick helpful responses and tips!

I'll do a surprise visit and start the 300td in the cold. Hopefully it has good compression and would start. I really want to buy this car.

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1984 190D 160,000 miles -sold
1992 190E 124,000 manual 2.3 -sold
2000 c230K 84,000
1995 e300 134k

Some are better than others. After I replaced the starter in my old '75 300D, it would start up without a block heater down to about -20 deg F.

My 240D started without a block heater last winter to about -5 deg F.

My current 300SD can't start below freezing without help.

Help!

__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

All this leads me to the question: what causes compression to reduce and eventually disappear (rendering the engine dead)? Expansion and contraction of the combustion chamber walls through the years? Can anyone here clearly explain?

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1999 Mercedes-Benz S600, 103K miles - garage queen
1988 Mercedes-Benz 560SEL, 89K miles - daily driver
2007 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 31K - daily driver

Wear and tear. Cylinder walls get out of shape or the cross hatching gets rubbed off for whatever reason. Leaky head gasket or valves.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

braver,

Its mostly wear on the piston rings is that causes engines to lose compression. We all know that the rings wear on the surface touching the cylinder walls but they also wear on the surfaces that touch the ring groves and the ring groves also wear so there is a larger path for air to leak past the rings.

This all contributes to leakage which reduces the compression. Thus there is lower pressure and since temperature in the cylinder is proportional to pressure, the temperataure is lower which leads to harder starting.

P E H

time to jump in with a favourite cold start technique.when all else fails and you dont have block heater,electric outlet or extension cord long enough.try filling a roasting pan with charcoal briquettes.get it goin with barbque starter.once the coals are glowin slip it under the engine.wait 15 mins boomba.

I've found that once its down around 15 degrees, it gets challenging, and you don't have too many cracks at the bat before your battery is dead. If you buy this car, don't play games, immediately replace all glowplugs, install a new battery and change the oil to synthetic. On one hand you can say the car has been up there in Wisconsin all this time, so it probably still does run o.k. in the winter, on the other hand, you could say that THIS winter (after you buy it), will be when it starts to act up. If you want to enjoy your car, help it out and prepare it for winter. It should start if it has been well cared for. Lastly, don't mess around with any starting fluids, they are seriously dangerous on diesel engines that use glowplugs.

GregS
'84 300D (sold) started at 15 degrees
'85 VW Jetta diesel (sold) started at 0 degrees

Michael,
Your suggestion for BBQing the engine reminds me how mechanics used to start Big dozers, and scrapers. These were fairly old units with no electric strater--they used a small (recoil started) gas engine ( pony motor) as a starter. On cold mornings, after they finally got the pony motor running, they'd engage it and it would instantly die. All that cold, thick oil just didn't want to move. Their solution was to take a large pan they used for draining the oil for this equipment--probably 10 gallon capacity--and put a gallon or so of diesel in it and set the pan on fire. Then they'd slide it under the oil pan of whatever they were trying to start and go have another cup of coofee. After maybe a half hour, they'd come back outside and restart the pony motor and then the big diesel. It usually worked!