Mercedes-Benz 240D Diesel Automobiles Going Back into Production ! - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

oldnavy · #31 01-10-2005, 07:59 PM

I've been thinking more about the Chrysler/Dodge use of MB chassis and running gear along with Ford using Volvo & Jag chassis. Is this a sign of great changes coming down in the world of globalization of industry? Is it going to mean an improvement in function, style, options, price and quality??? How will it effect high end auto's in the this industry, will their value drop along with quality?

oldnavy · #32 01-10-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickW

I'm happy that you kept it in the "family".

Just got back inside from my garage, where I was crawling around under my stored-for-the-winter 240D, just looking around. Thermometer says 11 degrees F. Wife thinks I'm a bit nuts.

- Patrick

I'm with your wife on this one.

morgantruce · #33 01-10-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldnavy

One of the reasons for selling the car was because my wife was never happy with me for buying a 20+ year old car and worried about me being stranded somewhere.

Being "stranded" in a car you love has its merits. You know you're not going to leave a lovely 240D by the side of the road. Twice I've been "stranded" in lovely cars---both times I was "saved" by other motorists who couldn't bear to see such a nice car "in trouble".

Compare that situation with breaking down in a car which you have no special fondness for. Twice I've abandoned hateful cars that broke down away from home---a cleansing experience! (both American makes, no longer produced...)

------

Wouldn't each of you be more likely to stop and offer assistance to an unfortunate motorist if they were driving a 240D----instead of some non-descript pile of trouble?

.

braverichard · #34 01-10-2005, 09:23 PM

TRY THIS:

A friend's 1995 Ford Taurus had broken down on her so many times that the last time it broke down, she just left it by the side on the highway, called one of her girlfriends, drove straight to the Infiniti dealership at which her credit was checked and she was approved right away and drove off in a brand spanking new 2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe. She then called the local junk yard from home. They came to her house, collected the keys and the title to the Taurus, gave her $50 for it and then went and towed it away to their junk yard. That's how she got rid of the car! Talk about no love for that car. I don't blame her at all!!

Hatterasguy · #35 01-11-2005, 08:52 AM

[QUOTE=oldnavy]
[I]are built on a S430 MB chassis, uses MB electronics, drive trains and even
QUOTE]

From my understanding they are built on the W210 chassis not the W220. MB gives Chrysler all of their old stuff, I don't think the Germans would ever stand to have the currant S class chassis under an American car. Also the expense of the S class chassis would be cost prohibitive. They would have to change the suspension over from air ect.

Nice car though, the Magnum/300C are probably some of the nicest looking cars around. Did you get the V8? I bet that sucker has some kick to it!

oldnavy · #36 01-11-2005, 09:09 AM

[QUOTE=Hatterasguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldnavy

[I]are built on a S430 MB chassis, uses MB electronics, drive trains and even
QUOTE]

From my understanding they are built on the W210 chassis not the W220. MB gives Chrysler all of their old stuff, I don't think the Germans would ever stand to have the currant S class chassis under an American car. Also the expense of the S class chassis would be cost prohibitive. They would have to change the suspension over from air ect.

Nice car though, the Magnum/300C are probably some of the nicest looking cars around. Did you get the V8? I bet that sucker has some kick to it!

Nope it has the 120 inch S430 chassis not the 112 inch E320 chassis, and the air ride suspension is standard on AWD RT Hemi and optional on other models. Also the wheels are same bolt pattern and offset as the S430.

These two cars are unbelievable in their ride and handeling. I opted for the small 190 hp DOC V6 in RWD and the car listed for $24,000 and I got it for $18,900 with 3,800 miles on the clock. The car was equipted like I would have ordered it myself. I love the cloth seats like I got, very euro.

Hatterasguy · #37 01-11-2005, 09:13 AM

Why did you have to post the prices?

Now you got the gears in my head turning. I wonder what a slightly "used" 300C would go for? I would kill for a black 300C with a V8, reminds me of a W126.

Off to price shop I go...

#38 01-11-2005, 10:01 AM

Quote:

If I were a small developing nation with a burdgening industrial sector and a disregard for the 'intellectual property' of fat cat bureaucrats from the other side of the world, I'd definately copy and start manufacturing W123s.

Wow, this is not something I like to hear. While any patent for the 240D has long since expired, intellectual property and a company's proprietary information are often what gives it a competitive edge in the marketplace.

I make my living through technology and much of it is proprietary and patent protected. I simply do not think it is fair for a false competitor to come along and copy my product. They never went through the R&D headaches and dollars that I did--why should they reap the benefits of my own investment?

morgantruce · #39 01-11-2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWolfpack

They never went through the R&D headaches and dollars that I did--why should they reap the benefits of my own investment?

...because (in this hypothetical case) THEY are willing to gamble that there are enough people out there that want a NEW W123. If Mercedes is not willing to make that gamble, why should that mean that we never see a new one again?

This is why patents do not give eternal rights.

LaughingGravy · #40 01-11-2005, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gowolfpack

They never went through the R&D headaches and dollars that I did--why should they reap the benefits of my own investment?

This is the same arguement Big Pharma may make on the OD board.

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgantruce

...because (in this hypothetical case) THEY are willing to gamble that there are enough people out there that want a NEW W123. If Mercedes is not willing to make that gamble, why should that mean that we never see a new one again?

This is why patents do not give eternal rights.

diametricalbenz · #41 01-11-2005, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldnavy

Nope it has the 120 inch S430 chassis not the 112 inch E320 chassis, and the air ride suspension is standard on AWD RT Hemi and optional on other models. Also the wheels are same bolt pattern and offset as the S430.

How odd, I was recently watching some of the past BBC "Top Gear" episodes from 2004 and they quoted the car as having a "previous generation E-class" W210 body as well. I wonder if they just got their info wrong. A few websites also mentioned the W210 being used as well.

I wonder how much the replacement air suspension struts are on the AWD RT Hemi model when when those things start leaking.

phidauex · #42 01-11-2005, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoWolfpack

Wow, this is not something I like to hear. While any patent for the 240D has long since expired, intellectual property and a company's proprietary information are often what gives it a competitive edge in the marketplace.

I make my living through technology and much of it is proprietary and patent protected. I simply do not think it is fair for a false competitor to come along and copy my product. They never went through the R&D headaches and dollars that I did--why should they reap the benefits of my own investment?

While in general I agree with you, when international politics are brought into play, intellectual property begins to change shape. We accept it as a given that 'intellectual property' exists, but other countries have very different laws and cultural associations with patents and holding exclusive rights to a process or design.

For instance, when a few African nations began synthesizing AIDS medication for their people, they were shut down by the WTO for trade violations, since those drugs were the IP of American big pharma. If you put yourself in the shoes of one of the doctors synthesizing and using AIDS medication for your patients, do you honestly believe you'd be doing the wrong thing?

Thats an extreme example, but to the W123 example, put yourself in the shoes of a small poor country. Your industry has been forgotten by the world, your people are in poverty, and you need something to jumpstart an economy. Cheap reliable cars are a way to do this, and I don't think they'd be wrong to copy an 'obsolete' design. MB gave up on the 240D 20 years ago, me making and selling them in my backwater nation wouldn't take a single sale away from MB, so even if they attempted a legal action, I wouldn't feel like I was doing something 'wrong'.

IP is very complicated, its not as simple as 'I made it, I get it forever.' Especially when it comes to the relationship between big and small nations, with very different cultures and situations.

peace,
sam

Angel · #43 01-11-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldnavy

I've been thinking more about the Chrysler/Dodge use of MB chassis and running gear along with Ford using Volvo & Jag chassis. Is this a sign of great changes coming down in the world of globalization of industry? Is it going to mean an improvement in function, style, options, price and quality??? How will it effect high end auto's in the this industry, will their value drop along with quality?

-Great change ? yes but no, it's already in motion., globalization is gonna make every company want to be multinational - use the nation with cheapest labor to make parts and sell them in the country with the most money to burn- Globalization is a two-edged sword.
The improvement in style/options/function will be driven by the customes (in the country with the most money)

-John

oldnavy · #44 01-11-2005, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

How odd, I was recently watching some of the past BBC "Top Gear" episodes from 2004 and they quoted the car as having a "previous generation E-class" W210 body as well. I wonder if they just got their info wrong. A few websites also mentioned the W210 being used as well.

I wonder how much the replacement air suspension struts are on the AWD RT Hemi model when when those things start leaking.

There is a lot of previous generation equiptment being use, such as the old MB technology of shutting off cylinders to save gas on the V8. The original thought was to use the W210 but they decided to use a platform that they had capabilities of making more of if the 300C and Magnum become big sellers. The Crossfire is the SLK and even comes with MB engine, the only thing that's not MB on that car is sheet metal, and there was some people in MB management very upset over that big time.

The new Dodge Darango also uses a MB SUV platform and is all MB but engine and sheet metal, and the Chrysler Pacifica uses a MB platform but not sure which.

MBDFahrer · #45 01-11-2005, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldnavy

There is a lot of previous generation equiptment being use, such as the old MB technology of shutting off cylinders to save gas on the V8. The original thought was to use the W210 but they decided to use a platform that they had capabilities of making more of if the 300C and Magnum become big sellers. The Crossfire is the SLK and even comes with MB engine, the only thing that's not MB on that car is sheet metal, and there was some people in MB management very upset over that big time.

The new Dodge Darango also uses a MB SUV platform and is all MB but engine and sheet metal, and the Chrysler Pacifica uses a MB platform but not sure which.

I think the W210 chassis was just for the 300, not the Magnum (I think I have the same episode of Top Gear). The Crossfire and SLK are identical, even the interior is very similar. Rumors of the AMG 3.2 engine was to be used in the Crossfire also as a SRT model. The Pacifica is the same chassis as the Mercedes Grand Sport Tourer (GST), I believe...