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  #1  
Old 02-22-2005, 12:13 PM
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Location: Michigan
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Will we graduate from MB diesels to TDI's?

This question has set me to thinking.... "what will all of us old time diesel lovers graduate to?" Or will we stay with the classic car forever? Having recently purchased a TDI, I offer the following comparisons and welcome yours:

1. Reliability - so far I like the MB because its virtually all mechanical
2. Performance - TDI
3. Longevity - Although some intial TDI's have turned 300k, I still sticking with the MB
4. Economy - TDI if I can learn to do the timing belt myself, otherwise it might be a toss up
5. Instrument Cluster Lights -
6. Indestructible - MB
7. Safety - MB
8. Alternative Fuels - MB
9. Tank Feel - MB
10. Seats - TDI

I'm still 80% MB for my daily drivers (4:1). Don't worry, I haven't cash all my chips in yet.

Don
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DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed
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  #2  
Old 02-22-2005, 12:24 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
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Probably not, CDI or gas is next for me.

VW makes a nice diesel car though you never know. Although I wasn't to impressed with the 1.8T I drove, sure it was a nice new Jetta. Brakes and handling were good to, and the ride was decent also. But I kept thinking wow this thing cost about $20k I can get a 500E, S420, XJ8/R, 330, 740iL.. ect. I would buy a used one but not one that was newer then say 5 years old.
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2005, 12:24 PM
I miss my MBZ
 
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 563
That TDI thing has a LOT of computers (more than 0) in it- thats gonna break the deal for some.
Perhaps as more TDI's populate the roads, and as more IDI MB's escalate in cost (no!) then more people, who arent as "die hard" as some, will just "give in" and get a TDI.
I'm not sure what I'd do if my 240D and a jetta TDI were comparable in price, perhaps in 5 to 10 years they will be...

I think price (on ebay, on autotrader.com, parts prices on fastlane...) will make that call.

-John
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2005, 01:00 PM
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It's possible that I will graduate to a TDI one day, but even if I do I'm sure I'll keep at least one old MB diesel. The TDI's have interested me for the last couple years because of their economy and how smooth, quiet and clean they run. But I find the styling of the old MB's a lot more appealing than any of the VW's. VW's look like what they were intended to be: economy cars. For the price of a new TDI you sure can pick up a really nice used Benz.
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2005, 01:01 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast
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For no particular reason, I am not much of a VW person. They are nice little cars, but don't really do it for me. The only thing that would push me over the edge would be the incredible fuel economy those TDIs get. Even then, it's hard to compare one to what I'm driving now. I'll admit that some of it is that I'm smitten by the MB tradition ... our cars just ooze class (and yes, I know, some of our cars ooze other things too).

I can't say I have the mechanical expertise to appropriately pass judgment on a TDI, and my experience with them is somewhat limited. My sister has one, though, and I have driven it and heard much about her experiences with it. She's a smart woman, but her automechanical knowledge is even more limited than mine. She is quite fond of her car, but her two reasons for it are 1)visability and 2)fuel economy. Like I said, fuel economy, I can see being pulled in by. Visability, I don't really understand ... she's obsessed with visability, whereas I place it lower down on my list of "musts" (I drove a solid-backed van for a couple years).
My problems with her TDI: always seems to have electrical problems. I deal with enough computer shutdowns and crashes at work; I don't need them in my car.
Also, I have to disagree with the performance angle. Maybe may taste is unrefined when it comes to vehicular performance, but while my sis's 2002 TDI handles nicely and is a lively little bugger, it does not come close, IMO, to what I get from my OM603.

And for comfort and "luxury," the MBs are, well, "unlike any other."

In my perhaps delusion world, I will stick to my old MBs, even if I have to have 15 beaters parked out back. I don't consider it entirely unfeasable to rely on older MBs for the next 15 years. After that, who's really to say what advances (or regressions!) will take place with cars?

I'm also not entirely against getting in a CDI, and if they ever made a diesel G for the U.S. market, I'd stop purchasing food in order to save up my money and buy the gelaendewagen!
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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2005, 02:21 PM
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Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,373
LOL - "That TDI thing has a LOT of computers (more than 0) in it"

I agree. That stuff scares me to death. It sure is alot easier to remove a greasy part and replace it with a shiny one.

What got me on the TDI was when I spreadsheeted it out. The stinkin thing paid for itself (against a MB) in three years.

Don
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DAILY DRIVERS:
'84 300DT 298k (Aubrey's)
'99.5 Jetta TDI IV 251k (Julie's)
'97 Jetta TDI 127k (Amber's)
'97 Jetta TDI 186k (Matt's)
'96 Passat TDI 237k (Don's
'84 300D 211k Mint (Arne- Undergoing Greasecar Conversion)

SOLD:
'82 240D 229k (Matt's - Converted-300DT w/ 4 speed
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2005, 02:33 PM
VeeDubTDI
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Lightbulb

Been there, done that, went back to Mercedes.

TDIs are fun though, it would be nice to have one of each, and maybe a Cummins too.

Mercedes-Benz > Volkswagen
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2005, 02:40 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 250
I test drove a new jetta tdi several years ago. I was impressed by the motor but not the rest of the vehicle. Didn't handle all that well and felt tinny. That said, the mpg is great on a TDI. I will probably buy one eventually, but not until the prices come down a bit on the used ones.
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2005, 02:49 PM
billrei's Avatar
W109, Floating on air!!
 
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Location: Goleta, CA
Posts: 556
What do you mean by "graduate". By your use of if it gives the impression that VW's are inherently superior. It smacks of the the smugness I have come to expect from VW owners. Ask the question in 10 years when VW's support of older models evaporates and there is no source for new parts...
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  #10  
Old 02-22-2005, 05:36 PM
Tom Scordato
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bellefonte PA
Posts: 192
Will we graduate from MB diesels to TDI's?

I plan on never graduating.....I like my Grade ie 617.9/ 123 Chassis, thanks for asking though.

Regards Tom
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2005, 02:38 AM
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Location: Miami,Fl.--a northern suburb of Havana,Cuba
Posts: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by diesel don
This question has set me to thinking.... "what will all of us old time diesel lovers graduate to?" Or will we stay with the classic car forever? Having recently purchased a TDI, I offer the following comparisons and welcome yours:

1. Reliability - so far I like the MB because its virtually all mechanical
2. Performance - TDI
3. Longevity - Although some intial TDI's have turned 300k, I still sticking with the MB
4. Economy - TDI if I can learn to do the timing belt myself, otherwise it might be a toss up
5. Instrument Cluster Lights -
6. Indestructible - MB
7. Safety - MB
8. Alternative Fuels - MB
9. Tank Feel - MB
10. Seats - TDI

I'm still 80% MB for my daily drivers (4:1). Don't worry, I haven't cash all my chips in yet.

Don

I'm like you Don-Have both a VW-TDI and (2) MBs 240D. Like the TDI for pick-up, mine is 5 speed. Gets great mileage 42/51. I have a few issues with trim-cheaper material(headliners, plastics) the am portion of my radio sucks. Had a few electronic glitches but hopefully I have those ironed out. My VW has a 12 Yr. corrosion warranty--longest in the industry(audi has same). The doors on my TDI-NB close like a Bank Vault-they are HEAVY. The interior electronics at night are great-nice cool red/blue int. and dash lights. As I have owned 4 VWs since my first in the military-bought in 68 for $1600 out the door, the old VWs simply cannot compare to the new except in the quality dept.--interiors and ext. IMHO were of higher and more lasting quality. In the new VWs-my Ac freezes me out, Heater works great, like the heated seats.Air bags, anti-locks and the front wheel drive has super traction in our frequent rain storms here in south fl. Some of the new TDIs are approaching close to 400,000 miles and still running great-so they are pretty durable motors by anyone's standards. Parts can be $$$ but As I search around I am finding quality parts cheaper,much more then the dealer. For the $6K I payed for the car 16 months ago, I can't ***** too much. Had I payed the new price, maybe. On the Safty issue, I have seen some TDIs after the accidents and they protected the occupants well--crumple zones and airbags did their jobs admirably. On my 81 240D(have a '77 also) the interior almost looks like that of a well maintained 2000 yr. car. Wood still good, chrome bright, seats look great, carpet is nice, bumpers very nice, shiny no pitting, headliner still like new,-what can I say--MB quality in this pre 87 era car(when mb still made cars) amazes me every time I open the door. I am left thinking-how the hell can a car still look this good and be 24 Yrs.old--amazing testimony to a quality car of the MB Golden era. But its like comparing apples to oranges-if MB were still making the 240D/300TD today with exact quality-what would the price be-60K plus? I like both, but hopefully I will never have to sell the Old MB-Hopefully it will be my WVO conversion. Call me Addicted, I have two Mistresses.
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2005, 03:58 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 303
TDI Believer

I just bought a 2000 VW Golf GLS TDI on Thursday last week. I absolutely love that little car. I don't know why people don't like the way these cars handle, I think it feels like a little go-cart. Mine's dark green with a tan velour interior, and the 4 speed adaptive automatic. If I had it to do all over again, I might have looked more and found a 5 speed manual, but in my advancing years the automatic may just be the ticket.

I learned there are a few tricks to getting that 700 mile range out of the cars.

One is don't try it with the automatic. Well, I don't think so anyway. i just started my second tankful tonight after I learned how to 'vent' so I can actually get the advertised capacity of the fuel tank. So that's the second trick, you have to vent the tank to get that extra 1-2 gallons in the tank.

Finally, I think I am going to have to stay out of the boost as much as I have been into it. That acceleration will really put a goofy smile on your face after being used to the SD.

Despite the size differences between the two cars, i think the VW will be safer in an accident, not to mention better at accident avoidance. The brakes on the VW are incredible.

I am trying to sell the SD, but everytime I get in the SD and drive it it makes me sad to sell it. Before I got the Golf I was in such a rush to get rid of the Mercedes, but now I have some reluctance. Oh well.

Ps one other thing I really like about my Golf is the reasonably new set of Yokohamas it's wearing. This is the first time I have had experience with this brand. These tires are quiet and very comfortable, and I have not made them squeal yet.
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2005, 10:01 AM
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Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel4me
I just bought a 2000 VW Golf GLS TDI on Thursday last week. I absolutely love that little car. I don't know why people don't like the way these cars handle, I think it feels like a little go-cart. Mine's dark green with a tan velour interior, and the 4 speed adaptive automatic. If I had it to do all over again, I might have looked more and found a 5 speed manual, but in my advancing years the automatic may just be the ticket.

I learned there are a few tricks to getting that 700 mile range out of the cars.

One is don't try it with the automatic. Well, I don't think so anyway. i just started my second tankful tonight after I learned how to 'vent' so I can actually get the advertised capacity of the fuel tank. So that's the second trick, you have to vent the tank to get that extra 1-2 gallons in the tank.

Finally, I think I am going to have to stay out of the boost as much as I have been into it. That acceleration will really put a goofy smile on your face after being used to the SD.

Despite the size differences between the two cars, i think the VW will be safer in an accident, not to mention better at accident avoidance. The brakes on the VW are incredible.

I am trying to sell the SD, but everytime I get in the SD and drive it it makes me sad to sell it. Before I got the Golf I was in such a rush to get rid of the Mercedes, but now I have some reluctance. Oh well.

Ps one other thing I really like about my Golf is the reasonably new set of Yokohamas it's wearing. This is the first time I have had experience with this brand. These tires are quiet and very comfortable, and I have not made them squeal yet.

Good thing about the TDI is, regardless of how fast I drive, I am still going to get over 750KM/tank !!!

I too have not got the tires on my TDI's to squeal.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2005, 11:41 AM
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Posts: 275
For you TDI naysayers - they are excellent cars. Remember, germans designed these as well.
They are safe for a small car. I break 700 miles per tank on summer blend. My mercedes' sit indoors in the winter.
It really is apples and oranges. I would reccomend a TDI to anyone Granted some have quality issues - I have not experienced any yet. I rack up some serious mileage on my TDI in the winter running kids for hockey. I installed an aftermarket deck, kicker sub and Sirius satellite radio. Unbelievable sound! Unfortunately I can only fit 1 hockeybag in the trunk now

They both have their merits. My wife and I would fight over who got to drive the Benz to work in the summer, so I had to go out and find another one I love being able to successfully work on the Mercedes. You guys must admit that the vacuum systems and electronics of that era leave something to be desired

Heck, I can even make an argument for a fast gasser (my TL). It's nice to step on the pedal and GO. Good thing my wife normally drives that, even my radar detector wouldn't protect me the way I drive the TL. It's so fast and feels like you're going 50mph

Bottom line - all have thier merits, it depends on what you like.
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