TD Conversion
 

:o I am considering putting a 616 with a 5 speed manual tranny into a "82" Euro TD (non turbo) wagon. I bought the car cheap because It wasn't running,... thers no rust, its a nice color (anthracite gray), the interior is in great shape with manual heater controls, all in all a nice car except the engine has LOW compression and the trannys toast, anyway, rebuilding the eng and tranny are options I have been considering but theres another one. The TD weighs 490# more than a 240D sedan but the 616 engine is about 300 # lighter than the 617 engine. So the TD with the 616 engine would be LESS than a couple hundred lbs heaver than the sedan. I am quite happy with the power I have with the wifes 240D that I rebuilt the engine in, (bought over size pistons so its plenty spunky, for a 240). I am thinking of transplanting that engine and tranny, I realize that I would have to put in new springs and regular shocks in the rear but I dont think that would be a problem. I dont have a doner car yet for pedals, linkage etc... So this is just a thought. I really like this wagon and so does the wife. I sure wanted to drive it before I committed all the $ and energy into it but it doesn't look like thats gona happen. So is it too crazy, putting a four banger in a wagon??

Does it have the self leveling rear suspension ? That is usually the tricky part on these deals...

First of all, whereintheheckdidjafindafivespeed?

Other than a distinct lack of HP, the thorny problem you'll need to overcome will be the absence of an SLS pump in your 616's head. Other than that, there's no reason it wouldn't work, the engine/transmission (616/5-speed) was offered by MBZ in Europe.

NBD, but if you manage to solve the SLS pump issue, you'll need to respring the front end with springs from a 240.

The rear suspension is going to give you the most trouble. People always say, "should be easy to just toss in some gas shocks" but it seems to be way more difficult that most people expect, and the resulting handling is often incredibly poor. In fact I heard of someone who got gas shocks put in, then paid to have them taken out and fixed the original rear suspension because the handling was so bad. In fact, I'm not sure if I've heard of any TDs that have been converted to 'regular' rear suspensions that have satisfied the owners.

That said, you might be able to figure out a way to do it.

Another potential solution would be an electric hydraulic pump for the fluid, but that would be a custom job, and it relies on the assumption that the rear suspension is currently functional in every other way.

Either than that, good luck. The 240TD was popular in Europe, so as long as you aren't expecting a race car (and it doesn't seem like you are), you should be just fine with that engine's power.

peace,
sam

If you use the rebuilt engine and trans from your 240D couldn't you use take the pedal box etc. out of that car? What I'm I missing here? 240TD wagons were available in Germany. I'm not sure if those cars had the self leveling suspension or not. You should probably also swap the differental from the 240D so you get the lower gearing. That would also allow you to get the springs and shocks etc.

Ultimately it might be cheaper to find a pick and pull 300D motor and trans. Then just use the original head for the rebuild.

Expensive but, another option would be to utilize the siameased belt-driven PS/SLS pump used on the later model (W124??) T-wagens. Some fabrication and head scratching would be in order but, it would be one solution to not having an SLS-compliant 616 head.

Thanks for all the replys....Rear suspension.. Yah it has the self leveling. I was thinking of just being able too buy new rear springs, as the SLS uses lighter ones, maybe springs for a 300 sedan and regular shocks.

phidauex

"I'm not sure if I've heard of any TDs that have been converted to 'regular' rear suspensions that have satisfied the owners."

Yah, that would be allot of trouble to go through and have a crappy handling ride, thats what I'm throwing the idea out for...Anybody out there use sedan springs and reguler shocks. Dont think I would be up for the extra hassle of a separate pump.

"R Leo First of all, whereintheheckdidjafindafivespeed? "

Ha, Ha. :D Last fall I found a badly neglected Euro 240D with a 5 spd, guy didnt know what he had, turned out to be a real nice car after fixing all the usual stuff (and then some). I swapped the tranny into my wifes car and sold it. Actually it had a trailer hitch and a SLS system, had to replace the air cells then it worked fine.

I would like to carry my dogs around and just have the extra room for cargo that a wagon would provide and it would be perfect for the wife to haul kids around.

"If you use the rebuilt engine and trans from your 240D couldn't you use take the pedal box etc. out of that car? "

No, cause I would sell that car after putting another eng and 4 spd in it, its a nice car but it aint a wagon :D

Maybe rebuilding the 617 would would be the best route.
Thanks again for all the input. I'm going to ask around and see if I can find anyone that has solved the rear suspension problem and is happy with it.

You MAY be able to just transplant the hydraulic pump from the 5 cyl onto your 240 engine. My Euro 240D has the same hydraulic rear suspension as my 300TDT! It's pretty rare, but it may mean that there's a spot to put the pump on the 240D engine.

Once upon a time we had an 81 300TD. (We had it for 21 years). We had the rear suspension fixed several times. Finally my dad purchased some non load-levelling shocks for it. There was never a complaint, and honestly it handled quite well. It even did well with a load in the back, although it did sit lower. I wish that we had kept the information about the shocks, but they were an off-the-shelf application for another vehicle.

So it can be done.

-Tad

McRoth

I remember you bought a TD about the same time I bought this one, but yours is a driver :D How do you like it compared to your sedan, still nimble in the parking lot? As much fun to drive?

I sold the Euro 240D with the SLS, it was the first 240D I had ever heard of with SLS, unfortunately I had to sell the head with the car :D


Sam

Humm...thanks. When I had that 240D with SLS I measured the dia of the material the coil spring was made from and the reguler 240D material was , if I remember right maybe, 3 mm more. Thats why I was thinking changing springs ALSO might do the trick. Woulda been interesting to know if your Dads car woulda sat higher with beefer springs.

Stevo, I really like driving mine. It handles really well & has a really nice smooth ride. Does well in the parking lot too, seems to manuver much like my 240D, even better with the power steering!

my old 240D had self levelling :) If you get rid of the SLS, just replace the springs with proper ones from a non SLS wagon (did they have non SLS wagons where you are?) and get some gas shocks and you''ll be fine.

could someone post a link/pic of the w124 PS/SLS arrangement?

FWIW wagon and sedan are the same wheelbase and, from forward of the back edge of the front doors, identical for all intents and purposes.

In the collection, I have both wagon and sedan and in town, I can't tell any real difference but I do prefer the wagon's handling characteristics on the highway...decidely more sure-footed than the sedan. The ONLY drawback to the wagon is that the cabin is louder. I get more road noise from the cargo area.

Good feed back...thanks

black280ce

I would imagine that finding "non SLS wagon" rear springs would be harder than finding 5 speed trannys here in the states, not sure tho, my mechanic buddy seems to think 300D springs would work, not sure what hes basing that on.

Randy...I did follow your great thread about your transplant but don't remember just why you had to change front springs, you put a 4 spd behind your 617, right, what affect did that have on the front end?

I gota admit that one of the big reasons I'm considering the 616 transplant is because "I have it" and swapping out 616 engs has become easy for me cause I've done a few.. also the idea of all the $ & time I would put into rebuilding the 617 to put into a car I haven't driven, thats a little scarry, Anyway you guys have given lots of good input to mull over, sounds like driving a wagon is "as good", too "better" than the sedan. :D

This thread covers the whys of swapping springs.