200D 123 starting... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pistokoski · #1 12-22-2005, 12:07 PM

hei,

i'm new here, and glad to be here. if i may just jump in. i live in cold Finland
(right now -20c) and i just got a 1983 200D 123W 2 liter. i got it in a town about 500km (310 miles) away from where i live. the engine was warm already when i picked it up and i drove it back home with no problems. in short stops it started up again perfectly. the next day i did not plug it in over night (the coolant pre-heater) and in the morning i could not start it. after many tries while cranking constantly i got it to catch on 1 cylinder and then another and eventually it started. but i almost killed my starter. when the engine had warmed up it worked nice no smoke and decent power. the next morning (today) i plugged it in for 2 hours and tried to start it. it would not start and i drained my battery dead.
i had a 1982 240D a few years ego and it would always start up with no problems, even with out pre-heat. (not healthy i know but i forget some times...)
my fuel lines where cracked and leaking when i got it and on the way home i needed to shorten the line after the pre-filter to cut off the cracked part. i did not prime the system free of air after. can that be the cause of the problem?
there is also a slight leak around injector number 3.
the glow plugs are working fine and the turn over sound sounds like my good old reliable 240D. any ideas?

other then that it is a grate car! since i sold my old 240 i have had a ford, a citroen, a volvo, a mitsubishi, a nissan, a dodge, a opel, and other too. some newer (1999) and some older (1982) but all have failed me. i am glad to be back to the only car that is worth it! (even if it needs some work)

P.E.Haiges · #2 12-22-2005, 12:25 PM

pisto,

Low compression is a cause of hard or no strating when a Diesel is cold. With the low compression, the air in the pre-chamber does not get hot enough to ignite the fuel even if the GP are working.

But if the block heater is on for 2 hours, it should warm the engine enough that it will start. Are you sure the block heater is working? Insert and extract the block heater plug a few times and see if you get a spark. Another way to check is to connect a bulb to the end of the cord that connects to the block heater plug. You should see a slight dimming of the bulb when the block heater is connected.

If either of these tests show that the block heater is not working, you might have to replace the wires to the block heater or the heater itself.

P E H

pistokoski · #3 12-22-2005, 02:43 PM

thanks for the reply.
my block heater is a defa coolant pre-heater element and is working, the hot retern hose from the engine block is warm after about an hour in -20. and with my old car even with out pre heating it would fire up in this weather in 2-4 attempts. i was thinking of adding in a defa 715 thermostat controled unit i took of an old car of mine.
http://www.defa.com/doc/25608.967112894.productxdescriptionengineheater.pdf
together with my existing one so that i have duble the heat. but it sould have still started when pluged in for 2 hours. the engine was warm! you don't think it can be air in fuel system? what else can cause this?
p.s. i noticed that my starter was a bit weak. not by much and it turned over nice on the first attempts so....

d.delano · #4 12-22-2005, 04:49 PM

If your starter turned over good at first but then not so good look at the battery. Could be that it's tired.
Bleed air by loosening steel fuel lines@ injectors and/or pumping like mad on the primer pump.
When was the last time the valves were adjusted? Do that. Also, oil- are you using something like synthetic that will allow for easier cranking? Make sure you've covered everything.

pistokoski · #5 12-23-2005, 06:01 AM

i got it running with a jump start from a nighbors mitsubishi pajero jeep after a littel more bleeding air from the fuel system. now i got a new battary and i hope it will fix that problem. i plan to also replace belts, glow plugs, injector tips, oil and filter, coolant, and add a new defa electric coolant pre heater with a thermostat so the engine will stay at a cozzy 80c. then just some interior cometics and she is a beauty again. thanks for the help....

Larry Delor · #6 12-23-2005, 09:31 AM

I would like to see a picture of the 200D... I bet it looks cute.

TheDon · #7 12-23-2005, 09:37 AM

200D .. didnt know they had such a thing.. but hey europe gets all the cars we'd like

Ara T. · #8 12-23-2005, 10:01 AM

Looks like they're common in Europe... http://www.memento-classic.de/e_pages/e_y_ange.htm couple 200's on there, that yellow one looks nice.

pistokoski · #9 12-23-2005, 10:22 AM

ya she is cute. she has the curved hood not the flat like the 240. and now she runs grate. i will try to up load some pics. but the real test is tommorow morning. will she start? i tested the gp's and number 3 is out. in that same sylinder there is a leak around the injector i think from the return line. and there is some thing there. the engine dose not sound like it is runing on 3 pistons. it has no problems when it's runing it keeps a good temp (even at -20c) and has satisfactory power. but the whole 3rd injector area is dirty and i must remove the injector to take a look. do any of you know is there is any way to visualy see if there is a problem with the injector nozzel? i will report back tommorow when i start it.

phidauex · #10 12-23-2005, 11:27 AM

Does it have the loop style glow plugs or the pencil style? If its got loop, you might consider retrofitting a pencil style parallel GP relay, they work much better.

Also, you say the other GPs are 'fine', but how did you test them? If you haven't already, you might consider measureing their resistance. If the resistance across a plug is infinite, its dead, of course, but if the resistance is greater than 1.0 ohms, then it is marginal, and should be replaced (especially when starting at -20 C).

peace,
sam

pistokoski · #11 12-23-2005, 01:07 PM

the gp's are pencil type and i tested them with a multimeter and all but number 3 where in the 0.1 - 0.7 range, both at the relay and directly at the gp's. i also need to change the fuel filter and lines as well as the return line from injector 3 to injector 2. my main input lines where carcked and i used a old washing machine water line i had at home. this time i will start the engine befor so it's warm and i can get it started easyer after the bleeding of the air. i hope it goes well. there is nothing more fustrating then a car that you know is in good shape not starting becouse of air or some other stupid thing.

Angel · #12 12-23-2005, 02:21 PM

4cyls need all 4 glow plugs to start - last year one of mine died and I had to get a jump to start the thing - I'd put the glow plug check/verification at the top of your list. mine started on 3 glow plugs down to about 20F, buy trying to start it w/o killing the battery was more of a gamble than I would have liked. 4 working plugs was a night and day difference.

I wish it were easier to check the glow plugs on these MB's, getting the wire off and THEN holding the test leads in there isnt easy, but then my dad showed me his VW diesel.... =)

John

P.E.Haiges · #13 12-23-2005, 06:30 PM

pisto,

Why do you have to change the fuel filters? If the enginer runs good with full power on hills, you don't need new fuel filters.

P E H

pistokoski · #14 12-24-2005, 04:00 AM

it dose loose some power on up slops. but then my old one did to. my calculation is simple. the car has years of service ahead of it. i got it for 480€ and that is a VERY good price here. mostly you can find un tested, un registerd, rusted MB card for parts for around 800 - 1000€. here mercedes are good and expensive cars. some of the parts on my car clearly need changing like the belts and others may or may not. but i do not know how the car was treated befor me, so i whant to give it the full treatment and then sit and injoy the my ride. the whole thing incl' 1 new injector nozzel and gp for syl3, oils and filters, belts, coolent change, etc' will run me about 200-300€ + i got that new 700amp maintnence free battary, disel filter and new fuel lines yesterday for 118.40€. that put the car in a total valeu of 1200€. and for a car like that that the motor on it will run forever if i just replace some surraounding part IT IS WORTH IT! just the head ache of calling to get a ride when it stalles or the pain in the #¤& when it won't start in the morning is worth it. and those surounding parts are what cause this problems.
p.s. angel, in my 200D i just remove the cable from the box on the right side wing where the relay is. ground the negetive from the multimeter set it to 200 ohm and tuch each of the femeal connectors to check ressistance. if thay rae good then nothing else is needed but if not you then need to check only that one at the gp itself to see if it is in the wiring or the plug. whay take the bolt off? just tuch the end of the plug with the positive multimeter probe while connecting the negetive to the car chasis for groung. it sould be the same in the 240 no?

tscorda · #15 12-24-2005, 06:54 AM

Try a new battery. If starter is going replace with a Bosch starter one that is designed to start a 1985 (turbo) 5 cylinder. It should fit no problem but check. It has a little more umff

I use a battery warmer, and a magnetic lube pan heater both electric when it gets real cold out. You have the pencil type glow plugs.

My battery warmer is nothing more that a small heating pad I bought from Wal-Mart, wrap it around top of battery, cover with an old thermal shirt. Have to get one that DOES NOT automaticly shut off.

Use synthetic oil that helps too.
Regards Tom Scordato
1977 300D
1979 240D