Help Will Not Start??? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

gvanhouten · #1 11-30-2005, 11:38 AM

I just got done doing the head of a 87 300td wagon and it cranks and cranks and does not fire. Here is what I have done.

All new glow plugs(Bosch)
Guides,valve job, timining chain & rails, headgasket, thermostat, new head bolts, new glow plug relay, and valve stem seals.

The injectors where cleaned by the machine shop.

I cranked the car last night over and over to try and get the gas through the lines. I cracked one of the lines and no fuel?? How long do you need to crank and now the car will not crank? Possiable burnt starter I believe it was original. How can I tell if the IP is adjusted properly????

Also I do not hear any clicking when I set it to the glow plugs spot. (I am thinking that there should be something moving the fuel like a primer) Fuel is not getting to the injectors and I am lost presently and very tired.

nckmsn · #2 11-30-2005, 11:47 AM

you probably need to prime the fuel system. You can pump the air out of the system with the white object next to the ip. I believe you pump till you feel resisitance. That wont help if your plugs arent working though

gvanhouten · #3 11-30-2005, 11:52 AM

The car is a 87 300td and I do not see any white object next to the IP. I would love to know how to prime it but I thought this was accomplished by rotating the engine.

nckmsn · #4 11-30-2005, 12:01 PM

interesting. every older mb diesel i've seen has the manual pump. It has a circular top that you twist couterclockwise, then you pump and on your last stroke in youtighten it back up. Which motor does your car have?

gvanhouten · #5 11-30-2005, 12:03 PM

Its a 603 engine and I believe I fried the starter trying to start it. No luck. Thanks for your input however I am sure there is no primer but you are right all older model have the primer pump. Smart engineering!!!

coachgeo · #6 11-30-2005, 03:40 PM

sory to hear you may have burned out your starter. I became afraid of that happening when I first read you were trying to prime it by using the starter.

here is some ideas:
Use a "mighty vac" to pull fuel up the lines. Or install temporarly a 12v fuel pump as close to the tank as you can. Use this to prime the system by pushing fuel up to the engine.

andmoon · #7 11-30-2005, 03:55 PM

Get a mighty vac or other suction device (I use an inline drill driven pump) and connect suction side to cigar hose. Drill/vac away until you see bubble free flow of fuel. Your system is primed.

gvanhouten · #8 11-30-2005, 07:36 PM

Thanks for the input it is confirmed the starter is dead. I am amazed how hard it is to get the diesel into the injectors. It has been awhile since the car has been started. I do not know when but I did crack the fuel supply and bone dry someone stated to me to leave them open and when you see diesel coming out close them up. Does this sound correct? I am also going to take out the filter and fill it up with diesel to help along the process. I do not want to burn up another starter. The starter seemed old so it was probably on its way out anyway.

Can someone explain how to prime this engine. I am not sure with the pump or mighty vac process. This sounds like it would work but again I am not 100% with how to go about it. Where are the suction lines for the fuel???

Thank you for all your help!!!!

Hatterasguy · #9 11-30-2005, 08:02 PM

Priming a 603 is simple turn the key and crank. It will take awhile to purge all of the air out of a dry system. Crack the injector lines and wait for fuel it appear. You can crack them at the IP first if you want to confirm the IP is getting fuel. If the starter is in good shape it should be fine, I cranked mine for a long time and the starter doesn't even get that warm.

Is the car timed correctly? Have you check it?

gvanhouten · #10 11-30-2005, 08:30 PM

I know the crank and cam are in time. I was not sure of the IP but I was told that if I did not remove it than it should be okay. Well as everyone knows now I will be installing a new starter tommorow. I would really like an easier way to prime the system but that seems the only way.

Timing of the IP of course is something I am concerned about.

Hatterasguy · #11 12-01-2005, 12:04 PM

I thought about this a bit today:

Pull the injector lines off the IP. Crank and fuel should shoot out.

If not then you have a problem, it could be a bad lift pump or an air locked IP.

I was told by a Bosch shop that if you put fuel in a bottle and suspend it above the engine then gravity will help you out. I think that should help purge the air.

The only way to time a 603 is with the MB timing tool. The dealer should have one. It is a little box with two lights, and a probe that screws into the side of the IP.

gvanhouten · #12 12-01-2005, 03:02 PM

Thanks for your reply. I do have fuel finnaly comming off of the lines. I gave my new starter a break. What a pain it was to put one of these in. I am trying to start the car in neutral as in park the starter does not crank. I have a new neutral safety switch and am going to install tonight.

All my glow plugs where replaced and I bought a new glow plug relay. I tested the plugs after the glow plug indicator in the cabin goes out. I have set my mulitmeter in ohms and for the most part they are registering .02 with some of them always dropping down on my multimeter. Meaning I place the red on the tip of the plug and the black on the ground and it shoots to 12.22 and then drops down to .02 not sure if it is a contact issue with the ground or what.

My battery is getting weak so I took a break to recharge battery and get at it this evening.

gvanhouten · #13 12-01-2005, 06:47 PM

Any other information you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Car is still not running.

Hatterasguy · #14 12-01-2005, 08:52 PM

Are you getting good fuel at all 6 injector line? It sounds like you may have an airlock in the IP.

I have never run into this problem before but if I were in your situation I would try the following:

Try the bottle trick I described above.

Pull off the injector lines and see if fuel shoots out of the IP like it should. This would do two things:
1. If fuel is shooting out of the IP then you have a timing problem.
2. If fuel is not you have an air or fuel issue.

Glowplugs shouldn't really matter either way, it will start without glow plugs to a point. If its 30 degrees where you are they will help, but all of the cranking you are doing should create enough heat to burn the fuel.

gvanhouten · #15 12-01-2005, 11:05 PM

Okay I think I am on to something.

I pulled all the lines off of the ip and cranked it and some did squirt out but not like I would expect. It squirted in sequence not all at once but rather one at a time. Most of the injectors are filled with diesel meaning they are not emptying into injector. I am not sure if this is how it is suppose to be.

Is my timing off on the IP is this why I see puddles in the injector lines??

Second thing I noticed is when I took off the filter (Small clear inline filter that goes to the IP) I noticed it was not filled with fuel and had a lot of sentiment in it attached to the metal screen.

Lastly when I start the car in the glow plug position I hear a clicking sound coming from behind the glove compartment box. Does this have something to do with my problem??

Hopefully tracking down the cause.