the polar bear and the penguin - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

83-240D · #1 01-06-2006, 10:30 PM

http://www.nrdc.org/flipandchilly/default.asp?ms=fcpmrgk

going thru my google alerts i found this item.

it may not be diesel but it adds to our thread count(like good sheets)

BodhiBenz1987 · #2 01-06-2006, 11:44 PM

At least, unlike Coca-Cola, they realize that polar bears and penguins don't come from the same side of the earth.

To be honest I'm kind of tired of hybrid stuff. It's such a fad now that's it's entering Atkins Diet territory. It's clever technology that definately has its place in cleaning up the air, but it isn't some sort of cure-all Godsend (nothing is).

t walgamuth · #3 01-06-2006, 11:50 PM

but on hybrids:

i predict that in the fairly near future, virtually all cars will feature some form of hybrid technology. regenerative braking and such. it is just a really good idea.

i enjoyed my drive of a honda insight with a five speed.

when i tried the new prius i found it not engaging at all. a little too little for the driver to do for my taste.

the way of the future though, for passenger cars, for sure, i think.

tom w

BodhiBenz1987 · #4 01-06-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

but on hybrids:

i predict that in the fairly near future, virtually all cars will feature some form of hybrid technology. regenerative braking and such. it is just a really good idea.

i enjoyed my drive of a honda insight with a five speed.

when i tried the new prius i found it not engaging at all. a little too little for the driver to do for my taste.

the way of the future though, for passenger cars, for sure, i think.

tom w

I wasn't really trying to say there's anything wrong with hybrids, but simply that I don't like the way the public and general media has gotten all giddy over them. People are always searching for a cure-all when there is no such thing. That's why I used the "low-carb" diet as an example ... it has very good applications as far as diet goes, but it became a trend and people expected it to be magic and to eliminate the need for work and responsibility. Obviously cars and diets aren't one and the same, but it's similar in that a lot of people who are clueless just read some layman's article in their local people and think hybrids are the hip thing.

BTW, Ford is allegedly showing a hybrid DIESEL at the Detroit Motor Show.

t walgamuth · #5 01-07-2006, 12:01 AM

actually they are hip. and sensible. and will rule the earth soon. and who cares if some folks are sheep. in this case more power to them (oooooh a pun).

imho.

tom w

BodhiBenz1987 · #6 01-07-2006, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

actually they are hip. and sensible. and will rule the earth soon. and who cares if some folks are sheep. in this case more power to them (oooooh a pun).

imho.

tom w

Well, you're probably right in terms of just ignoring the "sheep" factor. I mean, if everyone suddenly went all ga-ga over diesels, it wouldn't sway me (I am just evil enough that I would still curse them, though). I guess it's kind of like the LiveStrong bracelet fad ... sure, it was trendy, but bottom line, it was still helping cancer research.

Ignoring all the hype, I'll be interested to see where hybrid technology goes. I doubt it will rule the earth, because, at this point, it isn't practical for lengthy highway driving ... as of now, I have a hard time seeing it as taking over the trucking industry ...

Nate · #7 01-07-2006, 01:51 AM

so if the bear is warm at the north pole, why is he wearing a shirt in New York?

I say kill the exbies and hummers... Just not my little old f150

~Nate

dmorrison · #8 01-07-2006, 01:35 PM

Stupid movie.
I'm tired of everyone who is worried about something in their twisted mind, trying to tell me how to live my life. The large SUV's will take care of themselves as the cost of gas goes up. Its called supply and demand.

Hybrids
The complexity is amazing. I would hate to have one of the new Hybrids NOT under warranty.
Your maintaining an engine, An electric motor, I computer system, A large number of batteries. Etc. 3-4 years down the road your looking at major problems.
Also look what Honda did with the Hybrid Accord. It only gets 4MPG better gas mileage on the HWY ( I know the HWY mileage is worse due to the engine running. Hybrid 37 HWY 24 CITY, Standard 4 cylinder 34 HWY 24 CITY, 6 cylinder 29 HWY 20 CITY ) and we know the EPA standards don't work. So its probably less. Why did they even make the car. It does not save any gas. it just makes someone feel like there saving the world and their not really doing anything.
Also consider the energy cost to manufacture the car as well as whats going to happen to all these batteries that wear out, a new pollution problem no one want to talk about.

Consumers report did a report on the actual savings of the Hybrids. Some of the cars have a 6-10 year payoff to break even due to the increased initial cost.

Dave

TheDon · #9 01-07-2006, 01:48 PM

diesel hybrids are the way to go... but nooo diesels are stink and loud.. sooooo what if they are would you care if it got you 50mpg or even 100 mpg with that sound.. apparently because people unlike us dieselers are sheep.. idiots

t walgamuth · #10 01-07-2006, 03:05 PM

hybrids dont seem to make much sense for trucks...highway trucks.

they shine in stop and go. constant speed op a diesel will outperform them.

i read that there are hybrid city busses in op now.

i dont see the complexity as much different than current cars. just has a bigger alternator/starter that is reversible and a bigger battery. all cars have severl computers now anyway.

they will rule ordinary city transporting vehicles. imho. sooner rather than later. ten years maybe.

tom w

New2MB · #11 01-07-2006, 03:36 PM

Dealerships can barely fix a simple gas engine, now they're going to have to know how to fix all the additional hybrid parts (I wouldn't take a paper airplane to my local Ford dealership for repair). Not to mention your wallet is going to get drained replacing generators, batteries, and computers that you will be hard pressed to find in a junk yard. Buying a hybrid doesn't make economical sense or environmental sense (additional resources used to create the additional hybrid parts) until they are getting much better mileage than the current hybrids. However, you gotta start somewhere.

#12 01-07-2006, 04:04 PM

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/01/more_details_on.html

Mercury Meta One

It's far from a true Diesel-Electric "hybrid" but it's still pretty cool.

"431 lb-ft (651 Nm) of torque—torque equivalent to one of Ford’s large V-10 gasoline engines."

TonyD · #13 01-07-2006, 04:24 PM

If the message of that website was "Look into hybrid vehicles when shopping for a new car" it would be OK. My problem is that the message is "Pressure the government to force manufacturers to make more hybrids even if people don't want to buy them."

Matt L · #14 01-07-2006, 05:08 PM

I suspect that most of the people using the diesel discussion forum are like me, and do a whole lot of highway driving. Today's hybrid technology is driven by Japan's needs, which mandates a clean city vehicle. If you do all your driving in the city, a Japanese (style) hybrid would do wonders for your fuel usage, and might even pay for the difference in the cost of the car.

Hybrids won't help on the highway unless they use an engine which is just large enough for cruising, so that it runs at at least 80% power most of the time. But if you have that, you need enough battery storage to get you up a mountain. There is no perfect solution.

BodhiBenz1987 · #15 01-07-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyD

If the message of that website was "Look into hybrid vehicles when shopping for a new car" it would be OK. My problem is that the message is "Pressure the government to force manufacturers to make more hybrids even if people don't want to buy them."

That bothered me too. I like the idea of being able to choose a vehicle for my needs, and I like the idea of manufacturers being able to make vehicles according to demand. Some regulations are necessary, but a lot of things just work out better without the government forcing them. If hybrids are truly an economic upgrade, then supply and demand will lead to an increase of them from manufacturers.