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-   -   IP Timing (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/150375-ip-timing.html)

tangofox007 04-11-2006 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMEGAMAN
Front crank bolt is 1/16.

cool:

Actually, it's bit larger than that. By about 17 times.

hawthorne90250 04-11-2006 09:05 PM

IP Timing
 
should the trottle be at idle or full? or does it matter? when doing the IP timing check.

tangofox007 04-11-2006 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawthorne90250
Any one know which way the pump has to be moved to retard the timing?

Clockwise when viewed from the front. Move top of IP away from the engine.

Stevo 04-12-2006 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawthorne90250
should the trottle be at idle or full? or does it matter? when doing the IP timing check.

Wire the throttle open full. and dont forget to pull the vacuum line off the vacuum shut of switch.

barry123400 04-12-2006 02:26 AM

Your timing is 17 degrees retarded as you quoted present timing of 6 degrees before top dead centre. You want to reach 24 degrees before top dead centre. . So you have to move the pump anti clockwise when viewed from the front of the engine or the top of the pump towards the block if easier for you to remember. Review the timing methods again you used carefully for the welling up in number one element test. You were quite right to question why it is this far out especially with only 40k on present chain. 17 degrees is a long way. You should have more power to start with after the timing is adjusted. Whoever put that chain on is suspect and I hope someone did not move the number one element in the pump. Meaning the two nuts at the base area of the injector line. Was it a mercedes familiar garage that changed the chain 40k ago? You have the records. Pretty soon you may find out why I check everything as I go along but I hope not. You can do no real harm by resetting the timing. It is a piece of cake after you have worked through it the first time. But if any complications arise do not hesitate to post.

OMEGAMAN 04-12-2006 09:59 AM

Ther is no need to wire the throttle open it has no effect on start of fuel delivery.
Moving the top of the injector pump toward the cyl head will advance the timing which is what you need to do.
1-1/16 socket for crank bolt

Brian Carlton 04-12-2006 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMEGAMAN
Ther is no need to wire the throttle open it has no effect on start of fuel delivery.

Careful with that.

With the rack fully closed, wouldn't it be much more difficult to see the fuel well up in the chamber......or see the drip? It's a difficult process under the best of circumstances.......less fuel would complicate the situation.

Agree??

Stevo 04-12-2006 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMEGAMAN
Ther is no need to wire the throttle open it has no effect on start of fuel delivery.
Moving the top of the injector pump toward the cyl head will advance the timing which is what you need to do.
1-1/16 socket for crank bolt

Gota admit, I never tried it without wiring the linkage, but the book says to do it. Of course that wouldnt be the first thing the "book" said to do something that wasnt needed.

I use the p/s nut to turn the engine unless the engine is on the "stand" it seems like allot of extra work to use the crank nut.

hawthorne90250 04-12-2006 11:45 AM

Timing chain
 
Ok i just checked my timing chain with a dial indicator, removed valve lash # 1 intake, rotated engine clockwise(when viewed form front) the results were about 13-14 degrees reading on the crankshaft pulley(ATDC), tried sevral times to verify.Ttried second method lining up marks on cam shaft and reading marks on crankshaft pulley and results were about 4-5 degrees.so i am thinking this is normal and is too soon to install a off set key.:D
Chain was replaced by a independant Mercedes shop 50,000 miles ago.

OMEGAMAN 04-12-2006 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawthorne90250
Ok i just checked my timing chain with a dial indicator, removed valve lash # 1 intake, rotated engine clockwise(when viewed form front) the results were about 13-14 degrees reading on the crankshaft pulley(ATDC), tried sevral times to verify.Ttried second method lining up marks on cam shaft and reading marks on crankshaft pulley and results were about 4-5 degrees.so i am thinking this is normal and is too soon to install a off set key.:D
Chain was replaced by a independant Mercedes shop 50,000 miles ago.

It's never too soon to replace the cam key. It's purpose is to accurately set cam timing and nothing else. You can use that measurement as a benchmark to track chain stretch but that is not it's intended purpose.
Porsche uses the same method to set cam timing on their air cooled engines. VW and Audi use similarily precise methods for cam timing as well. Now that you know what the cam timing is you can look up the spec and adjust it accordingly, along with the inj pump timing adjustment you'll have the best running car on this forum.

hawthorne90250 04-12-2006 01:42 PM

IP Timing
 
So its ok to install the .7mm key?, Also i tried to adjust my pump towards the engime and the best i could do was around 11 degrees BTDC, when i pull the pump away from the engine it goes to around +3 ATDC, can i remove the pump and do the complete setup? and do i have to remove the oil filter cannister to do this?.
Thanks.:rolleyes:

Brian Carlton 04-12-2006 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawthorne90250
So its ok to install the .7mm key?, Also i tried to adjust my pump towards the engime and the best i could do was around 11 degrees BTDC, when i pull the pump away from the engine it goes to around +3 ATDC, can i remove the pump and do the complete setup? and do i have to remove the oil filter cannister to do this?.
Thanks.:rolleyes:

If you are accurate with the 11 degrees BTDC against the 24 degree spec., then you must remove the pump and reinstall it one spline forward of the current position.

Yes, you'll need to remove that oil filter housing. Some members have done it without removing the housing, but, you'll never reinstall the lower mounting bolt with the housing in place.

It's a good time to replace the gasket on that housing anyway.......they leak badly after 20 years. Get an OE gasket from the dealer.

hawthorne90250 04-12-2006 02:12 PM

IP Timing
 
Do i set the car up at 24 Degrees BTDC before removing the pump? when i remove the pump which way do i turn it>

Brian Carlton 04-12-2006 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawthorne90250
Do i set the car up at 24 Degrees BTDC before removing the pump? when i remove the pump which way do i turn it>

It doesn't matter where the crankshaft is when you start.

The pump can't rotate close enough to the engine to get the IP timing correct.

So, you remove the pump, rotate the housing one tooth away from the engine, and reinstall the pump.

Now, with the engine at the same position, you've got the pump far away from the engine. You might not even be able to start the screws into the block without rotation closer to the engine. This is perfectly OK, because you need to advance the timing by quite a bit.

OMEGAMAN 04-12-2006 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton
Careful with that.

With the rack fully closed, wouldn't it be much more difficult to see the fuel well up in the chamber......or see the drip? It's a difficult process under the best of circumstances.......less fuel would complicate the situation.

Agree??

I disagree. The amount of fuel on an inline pump like in our cars is regulated by the helix on the pump piston. At minimum fuel injection starts at the same time it always does but stops very early on in the piston travel because of the position of the helix relative to the spill port.
At max fuel the helix un covers the spill port much later in the pump stroke injecting more fuel.
At no fuel the helix never covers the spill port so the piston will not be able to displace any fuel

I hope this makes sence because I havent had to think about this much since trade school damn near 17 years ago.:eek:


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