General information about mercedes diesel engines?

[arootbeer]

Hey guys...new here, but likely going to be spending a lot of time in this forum

I've got a pair of fintails that are both going to receive the diesel treatment, but I need some information on what the differences in Mercedes' diesel engines are so I can make my choices. I'm familiar inside and out with VW diesels, but these engines are a whole different ball-game. I didn't see anything like an FAQ in the stickies, so I was wondering if there's a comparison of the various engine models and years available here, or elsewhere on the web.

I'd like to find out if Mercedes has ever had a direct-injection diesel engine (aside from the new 320, which is well out of my price range), because from my reading that seems to be one of the keys to tunability (and it's supposed to generally make the engine a bit louder, which is fine with me ), as well as contributing to better mileage in general.

Also, if anybody's got any experience with fintail engine swaps, please get in touch with me here or via IM...I'm excited about getting the research started!

[riethoven]

OK, I will bite. Are you talking about getting a mid 60's Merecedes with gas engine and switching it to Diesel? You must really love those fins.

[R Leo]

Originally Posted by arootbeer

I'd like to find out if Mercedes has ever had a direct-injection diesel engine

Sure, they've had lots of DI engines....

OM314
OM352
OM355
OM360
...

But, I doubt if any of these are suitable for dropping into a 'flossy.

[arootbeer]

Yep...they're pretty, they were cheap, they're simple, they're in remarkable condition, and I've already got them

What are the suitability issues with dropping them in? I.e. What's the difference between a swap into my '68 versus a swap into any other merc?

[R Leo]

Originally Posted by arootbeer

Yep...they're pretty, they were cheap, they're simple, they're in remarkable condition, and I've already got them

What are the suitability issues with dropping them in? I.e. What's the difference between a swap into my '68 versus a swap into any other merc?

Those particular engines are typically found in trucks...my guess is that they're probably too tall to fit under the hood of a 'flossy. Maybe too heavy and too long as well...

[arootbeer]

Oh...gotcha. So for the cars, there wasn't a DI engine? That was the impression I was under originally...

For the car engines, is there going to be a difference in how they mount between any set of model years? I think I remember reading somewhere that pre-'91 engines were much more "direct" to bolt in than post-'91 engines. Is that generally true? Will I have to fuss with some engines more than others?

Ultimately I'd like to get at least 130-160 hp and 30+mpg city out of these cars, and I don't mind changing tunable parts...is there an engine out there which most easily makes this feasible?

[R Leo]

Originally Posted by arootbeer

Oh...gotcha. So for the cars, there wasn't a DI engine? That was the impression I was under originally...

For the car engines, is there going to be a difference in how they mount between any set of model years? I think I remember reading somewhere that pre-'91 engines were much more "direct" to bolt in than post-'91 engines. Is that generally true? Will I have to fuss with some engines more than others?

Ultimately I'd like to get at least 130-160 hp and 30+mpg city out of these cars, and I don't mind changing tunable parts...is there an engine out there which most easily makes this feasible?

I'm not sure about the injection style (DI or IDI) of early MBZ diesels (say, pre-1970) but I cannot imagine them candidates for the HP increases you're wanting. It's possible that some iteration an OM60X (an IDI unit) could be used but there you are getting into the realm of engine control computers etc...

Anyway, whatever you do to a 'floss beyond swapping same-era gas for diesel is going to require some significant reeingineering.

[arootbeer]

I'm really only worried about whether the engine will mount without significant modification to the car. The electrical stuff I'm not worried about...the car's got something like 12 wires in it, so anything I add will be separate anyway; as long as I can find a complete engine with harness, I figure the main difficulty is in the mounting.

Are the late-80s 240D engines good candidates for the hp/mileage numbers I'm seeking?

[R Leo]

Originally Posted by arootbeer

I'm really only worried about whether the engine will mount without significant modification to the car. The electrical stuff I'm not worried about...the car's got something like 12 wires in it, so anything I add will be separate anyway; as long as I can find a complete engine with harness, I figure the main difficulty is in the mounting.

Are the late-80s 240D engines good candidates for the hp/mileage numbers I'm seeking?

No. It will take turbocharging to acheve the HP you want...and among other things, the OM616 (the venerable 240) lacks oil squirters to cool the piston crowns; necessary when going beyond normal aspiration.

Installing the engine will be the easy part on this project.

[arootbeer]

That's definitely reassuring to hear...fabrication isn't going to be my strongest point

So given I don't have a set budget yet, and with my stated goals, what engine range would you recommend I start looking at?

[stcbenz83]

Originally Posted by arootbeer

Are the late-80s 240D engines good candidates for the hp/mileage numbers I'm seeking?

ohh yea, go 68 Horse power, that all thats in a 240d

[arootbeer]

feeling helpful, are we?

[Old300D]

Originally Posted by arootbeer

That's definitely reassuring to hear...fabrication isn't going to be my strongest point

So given I don't have a set budget yet, and with my stated goals, what engine range would you recommend I start looking at?

Just because of the availabilty of used engines, I'd go with an OM616 or OM617. Might be tricky getting a turbo 617 in, or even a non-turbo 617 from a W123 because of the oil filter housing, so I'd be tempted to start with a 617 from a W115.

[R Leo]

Originally Posted by arootbeer

...fabrication isn't going to be my strongest point

Not good. Maybe you should consider another sort of project. Even the simplest of these kinds of things take lots of fab work.

Originally Posted by arootbeer

So given I don't have a set budget yet, and with my stated goals, what engine range would you recommend I start looking at?

With a nice fat wallet and fluent Finnish, a 603 is capable of making the HP and, on a good day the mileage but, I wouldn't begin to do any of that stuff to a Heckflosse..too ancient and not enough room in one for a 603...maybe get something that has modern suspension and more refined handling characteristics (IMHO, flossys are like horse-drawn wagons)....say maybe a 124 chassis diesel?

[Palangi]

Originally Posted by arootbeer

Ultimately I'd like to get at least 130-160 hp and 30+mpg city out of these cars, and I don't mind changing tunable parts...is there an engine out there which most easily makes this feasible?

No, this goal is not realistic.