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#2
10-26-2006, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Can you get VO for less per gallon than diesel?
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Doug 1987 300TD x 3 2005 E320CDI 
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#3
10-26-2006, 01:28 PM
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Guys do it all the time. First you should familiarise yourself with the possible long term cost. I am not an anti alternate fuels person by the way. The car I purchased was on straight vegatable oil that was not really heated enough prior to being processed by the injection pump. After getting it back on diesel there might be some indication the top compression rings are possibly coked. I have no smoke component in the blowby. But the problem seems that there is too much blowby for a relativly low milage car. The blocking of the breather tube results in the engine shutting down in about 2-3 seconds. There is no oil residue in the air breather to speak of either. Perhaps a lot of running might restore this cars engine. Only time will tell. the total indicated milage on this car is 159k and if you saw the car it's condition indicates that this might be accurate. The car in many ways is still like new.The above is just a guess with no certainty. Read a lot of vegatable oil related forums before you decide to just dump the vegatable oil in the tank. At least the injection pump was not damaged on this example. The mechanic thought it was and enabled me to buy the car up cheap. He was biased as he had changed four pumps out in the last two months at his garage on mercedes 123 cars that were burning unheated vegatable oil before this one came in the door. I personally would not burn unheated vegatable oil. Other opinions will vary but if the lesson this car has gotten turns out to be a true indication things are not well with this fuel used unheated. There of course may be some unknown factor in what I have observed but for the life of me cannot figure out another possible senario. At least up to this point. The verdict will not totally be in until I have driven the car for 5-10 thousand miles on diesel. I also have no ideal of how long it was running on cold vegatable oil. The only heat was a wrap of the upper radiator hose in copper soft tube.
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#4
10-26-2006, 01:43 PM
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I have none of the "reported" damage and my oil analysis is coming back great.
__________________
BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif 15 VW Passat TDI 00 E420 98 E300 DT 97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME! 97 S500 97 E300D 86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D 86 300SDL (o\|/o) Last edited by TX76513; 10-26-2006 at 03:09 PM.
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#5
10-26-2006, 01:50 PM
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i wanted to just put some VO in the tank with the diesel, 70% gold diesel "lasts longer and more power", and 30% VO
cheap?..stores have no name VO on sale all the time, VO is VO right? i would love SVO but i cant afford to convert the car at this time
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#6
10-26-2006, 02:50 PM
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each VO is different
Quote:
 .That said, I've read about soybean, corn, canola/rapeseed, even palm oil, being used straight. As long as your local temperatures are sufficient, and your mechanicals can handle it, apparently it can be burnt. MB's injection pump choice is apparently pretty critical, and they chose wisely for using VO. Question still remains though, do you want to risk some of the damage it's been reported to cause? 
__________________
'83 300DTurbo http://badges.fuelly.com/images/smallsig-us/318559.png Broadband: more lies faster.
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#7
10-26-2006, 03:07 PM
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For the gentleman running unheated vo for a year now. Do the blowby test as it only takes a minute. Do it periodically as well. Say every six months with the engine at operating temperatures. Any major drop in the time of engine run might give you an early warning. As I stated it is not proven to be the reason with that engine of mine. Just a suspicion. This engine is one of the lower milage engines I have in four 123s. It also has the worst blowby test of all by far. I think all the others are over ten seconds. The oil control rings seem to be functioning well though. If I got that time with a car that had used only diesel fuel it would be consided a bad engine I believe. Again I am not against alternative fuels but feel it is important to stay abreast of the best ways to use them. Perhaps you might post your blowby test here with a description of overall milage on the engine if that is known. What I really fear is if the compression rings are coking over time for example the engine is going to become harder to start eventually because of the decreased compression. I am pretty sure this area has been covered in other sites extensively over time. Just that the coking angle if it exists at all may not have been thought trackable before. Try to also remember it is all specuation on my part. You are in a position to prove it one way or another over time and make a valid contribution as to what you can get away with. I am certainly not out to bash alternative fuels. As thrifty as I am and with diesel costing so much more in canada it only suprises me that I am not using vo as well. After all I have more incentive with fuel at about four dollars an american gallon at present.
Last edited by barry123400; 10-26-2006 at 03:35 PM.
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#8
10-26-2006, 03:34 PM
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Barry, sort of what I am trying to do - solve the never ending question. the car has 364,xxx on the chassis but the motor has been into at some time in it's life. I don't have a flow meter to accurately check blow by. Just using the "loose oil cap" method and there is no chatter. The car is not a daily driver, but stays fairly consistent on the road by some member of the family as it's a good looking SD. The car is sort of a novelty, not really having any reason why I kept it other than the compulsion (addiction) to fix up old 126's.
Maybe one day I will report back some massive IP failure or the sort but as of now all goes well 
__________________
BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif 15 VW Passat TDI 00 E420 98 E300 DT 97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME! 97 S500 97 E300D 86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D 86 300SDL (o\|/o)
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#9
10-26-2006, 03:56 PM
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The massive failure of pumps in our area was the local bio fuel. On critical examination the volkswagon dealer found small hard lumps in the failed new car pumps for example. Must have been generated by the addition of heat once the fuel got into the pump. The pumps that failed on the 123s were using basically unheated wvo. Of course it could have been water in the wvo or some other factor. Actually more likely the cause of the pumps demise than the actual vo. Why these cars do not have water separators is beyond me. Most even cheap diesels have them. The vent tube test is very good to determine the condition of the engine in general on cars running diesel fuel. Using just the oil cap is too subjective. That is unless things have relly gone too far. I guess why I suggested the periodic test was to get off the vegatable fuel if blowby times to pump shutoff are decreasing rapidly. The only other warning one might get is when engine will no longer start some day. In otherwords my favorite kind of test. Cheap, easy and you might get an early warning with it that something unhealthy is going on. Do a test now and record the results for comparison say every three months . It really takes less than a minute to perform it. Simple really if shut down times are not decreasing over time the rings are not coking. Of course there will be a small component of normal wear that eventually decreases the time as well. What you are looking for is a drop from say ten seconds shut off time to eight seconds time over say six months of average use. You could actually get a guesstimate of the terminal point of engine operation almost by plotting and extrapolation of your results after several three month spaced tests. Come to think of it you can apply the same formula to an engine on diesel fuel over a very long time frame to track ring wear and bore problems increasing. The rate of wear in an engine is exponential to some extent. The more that exists the quicker the increase. This last statement is questioned from time to time when mentioned as it should be perhaps. It still remains something I was taught many, many years ago.
Last edited by barry123400; 10-26-2006 at 04:18 PM.
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#10
10-26-2006, 04:07 PM
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TX6513,
Any modifications to the fuel system to add heat to the straight VO or all stock? Only VO off the shelf or any WVO?
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#11
10-26-2006, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
__________________
BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif 15 VW Passat TDI 00 E420 98 E300 DT 97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME! 97 S500 97 E300D 86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D 86 300SDL (o\|/o)
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#12
10-26-2006, 04:24 PM
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Glad to hear it's working for you. I've been using a WVO blend in my unmodified car and truck with good results.
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#13
10-26-2006, 04:25 PM
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I have been running up to 70% WVO and 30% diesel mix all summer. No problems after a few thousand miles.
As the weather got colder I started mixing less WVO. It has been about 40 degrees here and there is a mix of 30% WVO and 70% diesel and it still runs good. I will do a tank full of diesel with some diesel flush before I put it away for the winter. Read this. Update on my WVO/Diesel blends
__________________
'85 300SD (formerly california emissions) '08 Chevy Tahoe '93 Ducati 900 SS '79 Kawasaki KZ 650 '86 Kawasaki KX 250 '88 Kawasaki KDX200 '71 Hodaka Ace 100 '72 Triumph T100R
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#14
10-26-2006, 04:29 PM
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Answer:
Quote:
I run SVO above 40F, and hydraulic fluid or diesel below. Have a great day.
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic asemastermechanic@juno.com Prototype R&D/testing: Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician. Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH). Dynamometer. Heat exchanger durability. HV-A/C Climate Control. Vehicle build. Fleet Durability Technical Quality Auditor. Automotive Technical Writer 1985 300SD 1983 300D 1984 190D 2003 Volvo V70 2002 Honda Civic https://www.boldegoist.com/
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#15
10-26-2006, 04:43 PM
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Not to hijack the thread
 What's the weirdest thing you have burned? I did some citronella scented kerosene from the dollar store during Katrina. Yes, the exhaust had a tint of citronella
__________________
BENZ THERE DONE THAThttp://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/...c/progress.gif 15 VW Passat TDI 00 E420 98 E300 DT 97 E420 Donor Car - NEED PARTS? PM ME! 97 S500 97 E300D 86 Holden Jackaroo Turbo D 86 300SDL (o\|/o)
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