Any New "NON Appliance" Cars we should be looking out for? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 10-30-2006, 05:53 PM

I have a simple rule, I'm just not interested in anything new enough to have a check engine light. New cars may have impressive technology, but I just can't get exited about them. I'll just drive the oldest cars I can afford.

ImBroke · #17 10-30-2006, 06:03 PM

My 02 Corvette doesn't rattle,,, but then again, it's got more electronics in it than whatever the analogy is. My wife's 05 Mustang is far better than the 02 we got rid of. These are definitely maintenance beasts, but worth it.
For those that say today's cars are more difficult than the old ones,, I would disagree. 10 years ago, I wouldn't know what all these sensors and stuff are.. Now, they are commonplace. I think we evolve as mechs, and should strive to stay on the cutting edge. Makes working on older cars much easier.

redassag00 · #18 10-30-2006, 06:12 PM

How is this a diesel discussion?

GREASY_BEAST · #19 10-30-2006, 06:18 PM

I understand the argument that the newer vehicles don't require as much work, etc etc etc... but my previous car was a 1997 Saab 900S. This thing didn't have very many problems, but it did have a "check engine light", which came on a few times, and involved taking it to the mechanic to have him plug in a little (albeit very expensive computer) to figure out the computer error.. $30 or whatever it was and 10min later, the car is fine. The car had 100K mi. I sold it to get my 300TD (mainly for the diesel engine and the opportunity to experiment with biofuels), but I figure that I have actually SAVED money in maintenance costs, because I don't have to pay someone to work on my car! Everything I have come across I have been able to do myself (rear sls, cracked radiator, bad IP, etc etc etc). Although it is a finickey vehicle (sort of) its simplicity and common-sense construction (i.e. NOT over-engineered like newer cars), it is easy to work on with a very low tool budget. I just wish someone would make an even SIMPLER vehicle (frame, manual trans, mechanical diesel, no electrics except cab lights, gauge lights, and driving lights), with the goal of easy, cheap maintenance and economic efficiency in mind... however, the 300TD comes surprisingly close to this ideal.

Carrameow · #20 10-30-2006, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redassag00

How is this a diesel discussion?

are older cars, around 95 they were virtually extinct...also most diesels are well...Mercedes, you can forget the 85 Rabbit or Jetta, who the hell collects them?

MBgrinder · #21 10-30-2006, 09:33 PM

So many great points have been raised, but there are a few makes out there that people are going to keep on the road that have come out of the 90's and as of late. as well as the 2 300sd s i have, i also have an old chevy stepside and a '94 Acura Integra GsR, and those cars are great in my book, 215,000 miles, and it runs and looks great. It has just enough electronics to make it eficent and fast, yet simple enough that you can count the blips of the check Engine light to tell what sensor has been tripped.

It takes all types for all people and only time will tell

Hatterasguy · #22 10-30-2006, 09:41 PM

Thank you iNeon for making the point I was trying to make. Maybe its because I am from a younger generation but I like computers in cars. They are much more user friendly to fix. A modern MB is so good it tells you when it needs maintaince, and the computer system that they use is excellent. Not FSS thats dead, the new one calls for everything based on how the car is used. When there is a problem you plug a computer in and it tells you what is broke. Remember when you used to have to pop the hood to tune a carb to change things like idle speed ect? Now its done via laptop.

Lets see:
Points and plug wires are gone. Now they stick a coil on top of each cylinder and the plugs almost never need changing. I bet in 10 years they will simply have plugs that last the life of the engine.
Oil only needs attention every 5k-15k miles, and yes if you don't beleive that a lab can back that up.
Cars these days almost need no service!

I disagree on the interior materials part. My 1982 SD has cheap plastic all around the doors that looks like crap. MB must have thought so because they changed it on the 87 SDL. Now the new cars are even better, its all leather.

Like a said before you can drive a new Honda Accord for 20 years, just be ready to put a lot of money into it from time to time. Thats why most of our cars are still on the road. The 300D's that were bought new and not taken care of are all in the junk yard. Its all how much time and money you put into it.

DieselJim · #23 10-30-2006, 10:15 PM

Interesting to have a chat about cars that survive depreciation and live past their "normal" life. This is kind of like the 50's era refrigerator that is on my Grandmother's back porch. It has lived way past its life but it is still an appliance. Toyota Camry is definitely an appliance car but the quality and quantity of them on the road make many cars out there with 150K+ miles on it that are worth nothing on paper but have another 100+ miles on them. While the only maintenance needed will be fluids, tires and a $900 timing belt change.

Mercedes diesels, especially the old iron heads have an engine that is probably good for 0.5 Million miles if properly cared for. With the initial money the original owners put in these cars and many were dealer maintained and loved. I believe Mercedes used to include dealer maintenance as part of the package? So most cars were fully maintained especially during their early life.

New cars have such high tolerances and oils are so advanced that with proper maintenance only reasonable wear parts are things you expect to replace and this seems to include window regulators

. Diesels have a special place because these engines last forever if properly maintained as well as being superior to their petrol peers. Mercedes diesels went through a lull in this country until the 606 came in with the 95 300D. I think there is very little doubt the the 320 cdi and the v-8 diesels will be similar bullet proof engines. However only time will tell if normal folk like me will find a well cared for car that has had most of its value depreciated in about 5-10 years. Personally I hope the ML or GL 320 CDI turn out to be non-appliance vehicles. I hope to afford a well cared for one in 5 or 10 years or maybe sooner.

Just my 2 cents and maybe a couple of cents more

Dana B. · #24 10-31-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselJim

I believe Mercedes used to include dealer maintenance as part of the package?

Ancient history, maybe. But when I worked for MB in the mid-70s a "C" service cost $500 and customers were constantly complaining about service costs.

iNeon · #25 10-31-2006, 02:00 AM

Free maintenence was discontinued last year. You know... When BMW started advertising that they include it.

How many people have defected because other luxury brands still include it? How much could 50k of services be worth, to be completely honest-- an oil change every 7500 and a filter every 14k and that's all you're getting.

The transmissions are sealed now, right? Brakes are never covered under warranty past 12k, clutches too.

Maybe a couple pairs of wiper blades?

Shorebilly · #26 10-31-2006, 06:52 AM

G'mornin' Folks,

Hey, what about the Subaru devotees......lots of them here in WV....

SB

BTW.....I read someplace, maybe here, that Subaru will be introducing a Boxer Diesel......now that will be a piece of engineering worth looking at....

rs899 · #27 10-31-2006, 09:02 AM

My 2 cents. Those of you who think modern cars are cheaper to maintain are right, up to a point. There comes a time when the car is worth $xx running, then it suffers a “catastrophic” failure that renders the car worthless (this nature of this failure may be related to the mechanical aptitude of the owner- if he/she can diy this could be something really major, ie rod through block. Or it could be something minor that just takes hours and hours of shop diagnosis time) . To fix the car will cost something approaching the running value of the car. Often, the car is junked. As cars become more specialized and electronic, the costs of producing a run of “brains” for cars will be astronomical, casing more cars that are mechanically sound to be scrapped.

Has anybody researched the total environmental and economic cost of producing a modern vehicle?

Rick

iNeon · #28 10-31-2006, 11:19 AM

Rick-- You're acting as if these diesels never fail!

They ALL fail sooner or later-- it is their nature as machines! It might be true that a thoughtful owner that does his maintenence and 'repairs' on time might get a bit of extra service and reliability out of his car, but at the end of the day, maintenence costs money too.

-- speaking on these repairs-- A modern car does not require parts that have worn beyond the close tolerances be replaced while still working properly-- the number of times I've had to replace things on the Mercedes because it just didn't like worn parts is fairly astonishing-- the neon doesn't require this type of anal parts swapping to be in a good mood-- Shlomo does.

That aspect of modern car ownership has much merit over the old diesel.

There are many of these w123/116/126 cars that have gone to the junker because a transmission rebuild-- it is no different than a car wrought with computer problems. Speaking of which-- I think youall may have built up computer problems to a point that they're never seen in the real world. Car ecu's don't just fry every 3 weeks. you MIGHT have to replace it once during the car's life, but by the time you do, you can get them at the scrap yard for 70 dollars-- the price of a 1985 w123 air filter--

It's economics-- some people just refuse to spend 2 grand on a car when said car is only worth negligibly more-- Would youall go to the dealer for a new engine if yours went out tomorrow? Would you think hard and long as to wether your 20 year-old car was worth the $2,000 bill?

Surely you would.

Hatterasguy · #29 10-31-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iNeon

Free maintenence was discontinued last year. You know... When BMW started advertising that they include it.

How many people have defected because other luxury brands still include it? How much could 50k of services be worth, to be completely honest-- an oil change every 7500 and a filter every 14k and that's all you're getting.

The transmissions are sealed now, right? Brakes are never covered under warranty past 12k, clutches too.

Maybe a couple pairs of wiper blades?

BMW includes everything for 50k miles except tires. Service is at 15k mile intervials. I personaly know of two people who defected from Lexus and Mercedes because of BMW's service plan.

iNeon · #30 10-31-2006, 11:42 AM

Eh-- I'd never buy a car just because the warranty included oil changes-- it's such a minor cost in the long run that I'd rather have a car I actually wanted instead of free flippin' oil changes.

It might get a little sticky, though-- They might do what DaimlerChrysler did to my brother-- he changed his oil himself and didn't keep receipts(nor do I, to be honest) and when the engine in his truck(1997 Ram 5.2) died because the oil pump quit working-- they refused to repair it because he didn't have receipts.

The replacement engine had around 60k on it when it was installed and now the truck has right at 200k-- it had to have been a fault in the oil pump.