Do any Diesels use Electric Injection Pumps vice Mechanical Units yet?

[Carrameow]

Do any Diesels use Electric Injection Pumps vice Mechanical Units yet?

I'm sure some Chip Circuity could fire off an Electric Fuel Pump or a combination of Electric Pumps, perhaps one per cylinder just as, if not more efficiently than a Mechanical IP. With the right Pump Injector Combination and 4 valves per cylinder the fuel could be atomized so finely and injected and exhausted very precisely.

The benefits would be finer computer controlled metering of combustion and exhaustion.

[TheDon]

i think the CRD's are computer controlled

[lkchris]

E320CDI and E320 Bluetec certainly use electric pumps to achieve 23,000+ psi injection pressures. Electric injectors, too. Common rail just like gasoline injection, so no pump timing, just injector timing.

[ConnClark]

The current high tech injectors use piezoelectric material in them. This allows them to inject a very precise amount of fuel at a very precise moment in time.

[Addicted]

Originally Posted by ConnClark

The current high tech injectors use piezoelectric material in them. This allows them to inject a very precise amount of fuel at a very precise moment in time.

Exactly. I think the Honda 2.0L C-TDI uses this and it can inject fuel up to 1,000 different times within in one combustion stroke. Makes for a more efficient combustion burn and reduced preigntion knock.

[uberwgn]

the newest Benz injectors are 8-orifice and can serve up 2 - 5 injection events per power stroke

[Addicted]

hmm maybe I miss qouted the amount of injections, I should see if I can find it somewhere. All I know is that I was blown away by how many times.

[rwthomas1]

AFAIK, all VW TDI's are electronic pumps, no throttle cable, fly by wire. GM 6.5 liters 94-00, fly by wire. I don't think that there is a single diesel made for the US market that does not have an electronic injection system on it. RT

[Matt L]

Originally Posted by rwthomas1

AFAIK, all VW TDI's are electronic pumps, no throttle cable, fly by wire. GM 6.5 liters 94-00, fly by wire. I don't think that there is a single diesel made for the US market that does not have an electronic injection system on it. RT

No cables does not mean electric injection.

Our '06.5 Jetta TDI has electronically-adjusted timing, but the power for the injection comes from a set of camshaft lobes. The latest TDI's are not electrically injected.

My '96 E300 also has no throttle cable, but does have a conventional IFI pump. Only the rack modulator is electronic.

New MB CDI's are common-rail and electrically injected.

[rwthomas1]

Originally Posted by Matt L

No cables does not mean electric injection.

Our '06.5 Jetta TDI has electronically-adjusted timing, but the power for the injection comes from a set of camshaft lobes. The latest TDI's are not electrically injected.

My '96 E300 also has no throttle cable, but does have a conventional IFI pump. Only the rack modulator is electronic.

New MB CDI's are common-rail and electrically injected.

Maybe the definition of "electronic injection" should be clarified. To my mind any IP with electronic controls is an electronic pump. Obviously the pressure in the fuel system, any fuel system, has to be created mechanically. Some modern injectors are fired mechanically, some electronically. Even the mechanical injectors on the new TDI are "second stage" injectors. The fuel supplied to them is already at a very high pressure, AFAIK. If its got a computer control its electronic injection. So I stand by my statement: "I don't think that there is a single diesel made for the US market that does not have an electronic injection system on it" If it wasn't computer controlled it wouldn't pass US emissions. RT

[Matt L]

Originally Posted by rwthomas1

To my mind any IP with electronic controls is an electronic pump.

The VW PD engines (as in our Jetta) are electronically controlled, and while the pressure is generated by a set of camshaft lobes, I'll concede this one. Although note that the PD requires a special motor oil due to this design.

My '96 606 does not qualify, even though the rack modulator is electronically controlled.

The distinction to me is whether the computer can adjust the timing, but I suspect that this is what you mean.

[SootyPast]

In the PD format the computer can control timing to a certain degree. Although it does require a very tightly spec'd oil, the PD's are on the leading edge. VERY high nozzle pressure and next to no residual diesel music due to the party happining inside the valve cover. Those little engines are capable of running well over 200hp and 300lbs of torque. The pd 170's that are now available in Europe are capable of even greater numbers. All from a very tight 4 banger. To my knowledge, I have not heard of even one injector failure yet... I buy the 606 spec oil for less than 5 bucks a quart. At full synthetic that is not too bad. I have also read some information wherein Amsoil will have a tested oil available soon as well.

[rwthomas1]

Originally Posted by Matt L

The distinction to me is whether the computer can adjust the timing, but I suspect that this is what you mean.

Yes, I would agree. Seems that control of timing is the minimum criteria for an IP to be considered "electronic" There are some very neat fully electronic diesels out there in pickup truck land. IIRC the new Cummins injectors fire FIVE times during the injection cycle. Some guys are getting 700+hp and 1000ft/lbs of torque without going into the engines, just bolt on parts. And they can still be driven daily too. Kinda nuts, in a good way. RT