83 300D non-turbo 4 speed - good investment?

[gretabenz]

I have the opportunity to acquire an 83 300D, non-turbo with a 4 speed manual in it. Other than the usual things to look for, are there any specific trouble spots to watch out for?? This was a European model, shipped in to the U.S. Any thoughts??

[Jeremy5848]

A 300D with a four-speed would be a nice car, even without the turbo. The manual transmission with a normally aspirated engine is supposed to be much more responsive than the same engine with an automatic.

I've read here that the European cars have some different parts that are hard to get here -- dealers don't have the part numbers, etc. However, I don't want to pour cold water on your find because the problem may not be severe. We need to hear from someone who has experience with a similar car.

The value of the car is unlikely to increase significantly unless it is already in near perfect condition and very low miles and you store it away and don't drive it. That kind of car could be considered an "investment." Otherwise it's just a nice old car (like mine).

Jeremy

[Jim B.]

Certainly not a good investment, but as Jeremy said, this particular setup, the 300D W123 series euro with manual transmission, is rather rare, was not sold new in the USA with this set up, and could sought after by those in the know, to wit the car is very responsive and fun to drive, compared to the 300D turbo with the automatic, which was the typical 300 sold in the USA in 1983

Especially with the Euro specification import like this one, it's very important to check the car thoroughly for rust issues, especially around the rocker panels, jacking points, and for leaks into the interior and trunk that may have caused rust to start, look under the carpets and be sure there are no leaks around the windows. The heating/aircon controls in the European models are simpler and easier to work on in the european spec models, which is important because this item is a problem with these models, unfortunately, and the American spec. heating/aircon is trouble prone. If the car you contemplate is any W123 diesel, (from 1977-1985) consider it a big plus if the aircon and heater are working well.

Check also for the "cars for sale" thread about the 1981 300D euro for sale by the forum member Boardmonger, it is an excellent example of the identical model of car you are contemplating, and this car he has should be worth your consideration if you would consider buying one from the San Jose Ca. area. That car has an excellent history, low mileage, and has been maintained by a highly respected Mercedes enthusiast, Zack K. on this board, who is well known here to be honest and knowledgeable about these cars, and is only selling the car because of another car project he's undertaking at the moment. It is a real beauty, you should check out the pictures and narrative on the car, and compare it to the one your'e thinking of buying.

In any event, welcome here, and should you have further questions, this is an excellent place to ask. You are already on the right track. Another excellent resource is the W123 section of www.benzworld.org

Best of luck to you

[truckinik]

Originally Posted by gretabenz

I have the opportunity to acquire an 83 300D, non-turbo with a 4 speed manual in it. Other than the usual things to look for, are there any specific trouble spots to watch out for?? This was a European model, shipped in to the U.S. Any thoughts??

Hey I'll trade you my auto tranny,and all it's components for the standard setup, and all it's components. EVEN SWAP, my car is even a non turbo car, so we know it will all work...Let me get my wrenches, be back in a jif.
My tranny was just redone completely on ly like two months ago, by an extremly reputable shop. It cost me a pretty big chunk of change to get it done by the best place, the right way. I'll still swap you though. Just buy it and we'll work out the details later..

[Boardmonger]

I've driven a few non-turbo, automatic 300d's in the last week and I've concluded it is a much more atheletic and spirited car. As long as you don't mind actually driving in traffic, it is the way to go as far as the w123 goes. As Jim and Jeremy said, look for the regular things and watch out for rust and the more history the better. I wish I had more receipts for my car that is being sold, but what I have is better then what most present in the marketplace.

As far as parts go, there are only a few parts that are not compatible with the US models. The injection pump is one, as are a few internal components of the motor. Besides a slightly less "solid" or "heavy" feel, the interiors are great. As long as the motor and driveline are in good shape, you shoudn't have to worry much about odd parts that need to be replaced.

[winmutt]

As a 83 Euro 3speed 300D owner it is one the "funnest" cars I have ever had. Good investment? It will last longer with fewer issues than any Federal turbo auto. Stupid simple drive train, this particular model is the one you will find most often in war torn regions of the world. Why? Last forever and require little to no maintenance. I upgraded to 16" OEM MBZ rims and 8mm spacers. The car out handles any Nipponese vehicle I have owned. Certainly not a Ferrari but in the mountains this car is absolutely fantastic and drops into the pockets on the hard banks just like the MB sedan in GT on Neubergring. Mine has 159k on it and uses less than half a quart between changes. Off the line torque is lots of fun. This means getting around in the city is serious business. Combined with plenty of engine braking you can get where you want in a hurry and still maintain a fairly smooth ride. The only thing I would complain about is the lack of turbo makes for a precipitous drop in HP in upper ranges. But lets be honest its still just a 25 yr old family car. Hardly a race car.

As stated above, the manual climate controls are a GREAT improvement over the Chrysler corp climate control (the weakest link without a doubt). AC is usually aftermarket, but I rarely have need for it. Also if yours has a manual sunroof its preferred IMO. Takes half the time to open and as long as you dont break the latching mechanism (darn near impossible) its fantastic. My mom has a volvo of a similar vintage and it had a hand cranked sunroof. PITA.

Bonuses? Euro IP (more powa) and a much lighter car due to 4spd and euro bumpers. These cars are much nimbler than there Fed counterparts. Plus if its a textile interior I find those to be more comfortable. If you have a chance to by a Euro at a decent price don't pass it up. If I am lucky I will be adding a 77 220D to my stable next weekend.

[truckinik]

Love the non Turbo jobs. They're just so aggressive, but also more timid when you want that. The ten hps don't matter a lot when your talking about a 3400 lb.car anyways do they?

[winmutt]

Originally Posted by truckinik

Love the non Turbo jobs. They're just so aggressive, but also more timid when you want that. The ten hps don't matter a lot when your talking about a 3400 lb.car anyways do they?

Whats that curb weight based on? The auto tranny weighs what 4-500lb more than the 4spd? The bumpers weigh at least another 50-000. Thats like 2 fat people in the back seat that just got dumped off on the last corner.

[Mister Byrnzoil]

I like em, but they really shine when you put larger tires on... they have the torque to spin something upto 1.5 inches larger in diameter than stock.... say 205/75r15 or better.

I have 215/75r15 on my '80 they are good around town and they give my engine back rpms when cruising on the hiway

OTOH, the trans on my 84 is totally different, and I went and put 17s on it and they are a little too big for around town, but they are super nice on the hiway.

[truckinik]

Originally Posted by winmutt

Whats that curb weight based on? The auto tranny weighs what 4-500lb more than the 4spd? The bumpers weigh at least another 50-000. Thats like 2 fat people in the back seat that just got dumped off on the last corner.

Basically memory, really because I haven't looked at the door jambs advertisement of the weight of the car in so long . I could have my curb weight mixed up with one of my other rides. I'm 2900 miles from my nearest 300CD though. They're in CT. at home, and I'm way out in the midwestern U.S. right now. I'm sure they're between 34,and 38 hundred pounds though, aren't they? Oh also 2 door coupe, CD not a reg. D-4 door.

[t walgamuth]

i would put the weight of a euro 300d stick around 3200 to 3300 depending on options. it will be maybe fifty heavier than a euro 240 and maybe 150 lighter than a us spec 240.

lighter bumpers, no door beams, and likely no power windows or sunroof.

it might have abs too.

tom w