manual gearbox swap?
 

I'd like to replace my Passat TDI with a turbo diesel MB at some point. But I really want a manual transmission. Since this combo seems to be rarer than hen's teeth here in the US, I'm wondering about a transmission swap. I'm guessing cost would be a couple $k. Anyone have any info on doing this to a w124? w210? Or even a w211? All the 211's I've seen in europe were automatics! Do they even sell a manual 211?

W201's came with a 5 speed.

A mbz diesel into a TDI would be like an event in itself

I think he wants to replace the whole car. ;)

It should be do-able, and it is a lot easier to find 5 speeds for the newer body styles. Several members have done a similar swap, but in the earlier W123 and W126 body styles.

It's rare around the world because that combo never existed until 2001!

I'd go for a 190D 2.5T and get the manual bits from a non-turbo 190D 2.5. That would keep the fabrication to a minimum. The turbo 190D was available only in 1987, the non-turbo 2.5 in 86, 88, and 89.

I swapped a 5-speed manual behind my 1986 non-turbo 2.5, all the parts I used (with the exception of the flywheel) came from a 1984 190E 2.3L (gasser).

1984 190E parts include: transmission, driveshaft, crossmember, pedal assembly (w/ clutch master), shifter, and shift linkage.

This is a damn old thread, but I had a question on making this happen.

Would the best way to manage it be buy a clean 190d and then try to find a 190e(more plentiful) parts car with a solid manual and perform the swap?

I saw on another thread that independent shops might be able to handle this for less than $1k. Is that a fair assessment? Also, would it be tough to find a dependable mechanic who you would trust to do this swap right? Or is it work that any good tech could handle?

Thanks guys.

The swap is not mechanically difficult, but it is time consuming, Also it can sometimes be difficult to find a mechanic who is willing to do custom work like that. usually they would prefer to fix what is wrong with new parts.

The issue is the labor cost, it will add up, and when you look at the total cost, i would guesstimate, that it will be closer to 2500, when you factor in, the little stuff, like resurfacing the flywheel, new clutch and bearing etc.

if you remove yours, and bring the donor parts already removed. maybe you could get it done for 1K. 1K at $100/hr doesnt go very far

Swapping a transmission is fairly simple. The transmission it self is usually no more than 20 bolts total. Getting to some of them can be a PITA. then you have to swap out the pedal cluster and shifter and fix the neutral kill switch. With two people it can be done in a day, a good weekend for a dedicated person.

nuetral/reverse lights is plug and play. the time comes for the custom things and searching for parts. They will need new flywheel bolts. they will have to match balance the new flywheel to the old and the drive shaft will have to be resized. I personnally dont think you could get it done by someone for 1K, but if you do find someone make sure you are not their first.

With $100+/hr labor rates, paying a mechanic to do the swap will get expensive very quickly. You'd be looking at $1500 bare minimum in labor alone if the mechanic is experienced in doing that kind of swap. If he/she has to do anything special like altering the driveshaft length or finding missing parts then the bill will shoot up even quicker. That is why its best to start with a 190D parts car of the same displacement as yours so everything except the flywheel balance will be a straight parts swapping job.

Realistically, a manual conversion is best kept as a DIY job unless time is very short and you have money burning a hole in your pocket.

Don't forget that g@sser flywheels are too light.

The flywheel for a W201 can come from a 2.5 non turbo car (there are more of them), and should be resurfaced. The trans can come from any W201 gasser, just take the front section of the drive shaft as well; there is no resizing involved as it will slip into the existing rear section. The flex discs can be changed at the same time. Just remember that the 2.88 rear end will be geared a bit high, but at some time you can change it for a 3.27 or so. (I hope I don't have the numbers backwards)

I have an auto 2.5 turbo; someone I know has a parts car with a 2.3 gasser, manual trans and the complete setup I can tear out. I am thinking of grabbing all the parts I need for a swap one day.

Not too bad.
 

I am in the process of my third 5-speed swap involving a 2.5Turbo / 5-speed W201. It's not too bad of a nuts-and-bolts job, but you definitely want to make sure that you have all of the parts. Getting everything from a donor car is by far the cheapest way to go. If you end up buying parts from the dealership, you will "nickel and dime" yourself to death.

I was under the impression that the 2.5Turbo / 5-speed combination was available from MB for the European market. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought that I had seen charts showing that combination as being available overseas.

SteveM.

Yes, they were available in Europe, but I think only the non turbo models were available with the manual trans in North America. Even so, they seem to be pretty rare. Where can I get a flywheel cheap? I did an online search of the parts sites and the part numbers for the 2.3 gasser and 2.5 diesel always comes up the same; I don't believe them!

Don't be too surprised.
 

I have used flywheels from a 2.5 non turbo and a 2.2 non turbo diesel. I can't tell for sure that they are the same part#, but they both work. It would not suprise me at all if the gasser flywheel is also the same.

I'm pretty sure they are all "neutral balance" flywheels.

SteveM.

sorry to resuscitate this thread so late. I thought i had all the parts I needed for a 5spd swap into my '87 300d, but I'm still trying to figure out what I need to do for the flywheel. The tranny is from an '87 190 2.3, and I pulled the flywheel from that car as well, but it doesn't sound like i can use it. is that correct? what are my options for a flywheel then?

The gasser fw will probably bolt up and work but being a lot lighter it will allow the engine to vibrate more and it will not shift as well as with a heavy flywheel of the type designed for your engine.

This old thread keeps getting dug up...:rolleyes:

I just got my 190d 2.2 donor car for my 87 300d.

What is the general consensus on the rear end? Will the original 300d rear be too tall? The 190d is an 85.

The shift from 3rd to 4th in the 190 seems rather odd. 1-3rd gear is close then 4th is a big jump followed by 5th that only shaves off about 300rpm from 4th at highway speeds. I think 65mph gives me 2500 rpm, maybe a little less(2300?). I dont remember. Certainly no 3k rpm that the SD gives. So far I have been staying in 4th for city driving, seems about right. 5th gear in the city with a 2mph headwind will slow the 190 down to 20 mph.... silly under powered car :eek:

I tentatively plan on doing the swap this winter. I guess I will part the 190 out. I thought about putting the 300d's automatic into the 190 and driving it(fuel mileage) or selling it as a whole car.

bump. just trying to keep it on the first page till tomorrow.

Rearend ratios
 

Off the top of my head, I don't know the rearend ratio in an '87 300D, but it's easy enough to check. The ratio should be stamped onto an "ear" at the bottom rear-facing surface of the differential housing. If it's like most cars, you will have to clean some grime off of this surface to be able to read the markings.

My gut tells me that you will probably want a lower ratio (numerically higher) than for the automatic. With the W124 being a bigger and heavier car than the W201, you might find that you will want a lower ratio (numerically higher) to get the car moving from a dead stop.

SteveM.

This week I am going to put the 190 on a lift and check it out a little. So far the rust I have seen is pretty bad... who knows whats underneath.

I will look at the rear diff ratio of the 190. This weekend the 300d is getting new diff mounts and I will look at it's ratio. Out of the 2 diffs I hope I can use one of them. If not then I guess I have to shop around the junk yards for something I need. What models tend to have short rear ends?