Marvel mystery oil too strong to soak injectors?
 

I have carbon build up on my #4 and #5 fuel injectors and I saw that others on this forum suggest cleaning the injectors by soaking in Marvel mystery oil for a few days. I mentioned this to my mechanic and he said that MMO is too strong so do not do it. I thought I might try to see what soaking the one injector in the MMO will look like after a few days and compare it to my good injectors. Has anyone else tried cleaning really dirty injector with marvel mystery oil?
Does anyone else agree with my mechanic and am I asking for trouble by not following his advice? I figure I have nothing to lose, it is already a goner otherwise. Maybe I'm crazy.
Frankie

I never thought of using MMO for such a task. I have used biodiesel in the past. It works quite well :)

It's an oil, not an acid. Don't see how it could hurt anything. :confused:

I substituted MMO for Diesel Purge when I chose to clean my injectors. Sucked that stuff right up, and ran straight on it for about half-an-hour to consume the entire quart (I was operating the engine at random speeds).

Diesels idle like glass, and the power and fuel economy are phenomenal as they have been for 5K miles since.

It will shock you how quiet these 60x engines can really be. Almost have to put your ear down to the engine to hear it purr. Not sure about the 617.

Time to post another video.

frank
 

imho you couldnt hurt an injector if you let it soak in the marvel oil for a year.
i have experimented with the same oil to try removing carbon from aluminum pistons and it just wont do the job, matter of fact engine oil did the same results.
i take brake cleaner, use a brass bristle brush and clean the outside of injectors. just be cautious and dont drop the injector and ruin the point on the plunger.
of course i completely dissamble the injectors and completely clean the entire unit,i have a strong solvent(porter t2) to soak all parts.most time there is rust inside.
hope this helps
larry perkins lou ky

Perhaps this oil thread will be bearable by all?
 

Snake oil thread? Does anyone know the active ingredients in marvel mystery oil? It did seem to free up gummed or coked rings on a 617 run on unheated vegatable oil by soaking.
The knowledge of what exactly it worked on is unknown as the rings where not visible before treatment. Plus it cleaned out gummed up prechambers as well.
Interesting observation that used as a purge the one gentleman liked it. My one original small concern was that like good expensive current penetrationg oils it does have an acid additive like sulphuric acid. It may not but there is some strong active ingrediant in it apparently if it cleaned out the injectors when running on it for about twenty five minutes. A straight type of oil would not have changed anything in my opinion.

I have heard of persisting with an endevour until you go blind. . Watch out for the marvel mystery oil fumes when using it as a purge. Your hearing and sense of motion might be comprimised.:D Larry, if you feel a weeks soak in this oil would do no harm then it should be safe as a powerful diesel purge as well in your opinion?

what could it honestly do to the injectors?
u would literally have to soak them in acid or straight water to cause damage, it says right on the bottle " use to lubricate and keep injectors clean"

This is helpful and leads to more questions too. Like trying soaking the other injector in biodiesel. Too bad my fueling station ran out of B99.
I do not know the ingredients of MMO. It doesn't state on the bottle. All I can gather from the bottle and their website is that it has petro distillates. It has no silicone, no methanol and no sulfur.
It is compatible with biodiesel according to the FAQ's.

I'm looking at the glass bottle that has the MMO soaking the injector and the ring. The injector nose has a scant amount of carbon coming off of it. It has been soaking for 2 hours so far. I'll put the bottle inside the house now and return it to the patio in the morning. Should be about 65 F tomorrow. I'll do this for 3-4 days.
Should I fill the cylinder up with MMO, biodiesel, or Detron III ATF fluid?

Frankie

go for the mmo, it wont coke up the rings like large amounts of tranny fluid will.

Ubrwgn-
How long did it take for the biodiesel to clean your injectors? How long did you have to soak the injectors in it?
Frankie.

Frank, my injectors weren't bad. I soaked them for a couple of hours. BD is a very good solvent. As the others have said, what can the MMO harm? I don't understand the mechanic's concern.

question
 

ok guys i wont even try to discount any stories about purging with suscess,but for me i have never been able to fix a bad injector with a poor spray pattern or one that leaks with any purging fluid. maybe i aint holding my mouth right.
if a nozzle is worn out u got to replace it with a good one, if its dirty-rusty you got to take it apart and clean it. as i said i use a strong solvent,i suppose i could get the same results with oils-penetrating-wd40-pb blaster, but i dont want to take the time to fool around and it always takes some scrubbing to get everything off the injectors.
just my experience.
larry perkins lou ky

Thanks Larry, this is why I am considering using biodiesel, it is a solvent . I have nothing to lose, and it can be a good experiment as to what does work.
I am willing to buy new injectors if this doesn't work.
F.

Friankie - Is my opinion that whatever build up in your cyl that was created on your trip last week should be burned away as soon as you fire it up with good injectors and run it a bit. I've seen you drive too; everyday is italian tune up day.:P

If you fill the cyl, how are you planning on getting it and whaterver crud it loosens out? Starter motor and blow it all over the engine compartment or turkey baster? I wouldnt stick the inj back in and start it, you'll likely do harm.

Hey TM
Easy now! I like my driving! I rarely drive faster than 70 mph except for that infamous road trip to LA last week. I think the problem started BEFORE the road trip eventhough I was only running 20 % of the tank on WVO the rest was B50%. I am not ready for a nursing home so I'm not going to going to drive like a old lady!
My mechanic is going to pull the head of the engine off to investigate what else happened. He already gave me a best and worst case scenario. I'm a taking this in stride. . . sort of. It is a very expensive lesson but it does help me decide that I really need the professional conversion kit with the BEST heating and filtering system. In the meantime, I can run b50%
I am new to diesel Mercedes so I enjoy learning from everyone else. I do not plan to be a master mechanic, I like my day job.
F.

as long as ur running boidiesel, even b100 there is no need to convert anything

How about simply taking the injectors someplace for proper testing? Say you soak it for all eternity, how will you know it has worked? How do you know how long to soak it for? All it is at this point will be a SWAG.

I took mine after 100K to a diesel shop. They checked the pressure and pattern. 1 failed. Low pressure and bad pattern. They took it apart, cleaned it and it worked well. $70 for the test of 6 injectors, cleaning 1 and retesting that one. No guesswork. You can soak it in B100 or MMO or DP. You will never know. Hooking up the injector to a tester is the definitive way to do it.

MMO wont do the job. Acetone will, imo youd be better off soaking them in acetone as thats one of the stongest solvents available on the shelf. It will burn through plastic!

just be sure to be careful handling these chemicals.

Anyway, on the greasecar forum some guys have had success removing carbon from injectors with acetone and a wire brush. But they said it was a ***** and a half to remove the carbon even after having the injectors soaking for a week in acetone.

There are some real good useful thoughts coming out on this thread. Keep it up.

Your mechanic wants to pull the head? What exactley was/is your difficulty? We would not even make fun of you for burning turnip juice ...:D

Hey Aklim that sounds like a good idea for the injectors but what to do about the compression test results? #5 was too low, 200 and that is why my mechanic wants to pull the head. He thinks that the valve is damaged and less likely that the piston is burnt. I have a little time to make my decision, he plans to start work on it Saturday.
I might look up diesel shop in my area. Wonder what THEY use to clean the injector?
Ruben, you get your Plandrive in yet?
Frankie

Still havent gotten my plantdrive kit together. I keep blowing off my money on other things:rolleyes:

I still need my rear suspension fixed on the car though, that would be the priority right now. Especially since the rear suspension broke loose on a tight turn and sent me sideways!:eek:

My mechanic knew that I was using WVO and biodiesel. He was not happy about it but it turns out, more money for him.

Barry- a hammering noise and lots of smoke from exhaust with a rough idle suddenly appeared during a road trip to LA one week ago. My mechanic told me to pour in ATF fluid into the fuel tank and that it sounded like a dirty injector. If it did not get worse, I could make it home to SF if I drove slow, under 70 mph. That is what I did, it did not get worse but it did sound slightly better after atf fluid.
F.

OMG! Similar thing happened to me on the drive down to LA, NOT fun. Thank God I never lost control of the car. The rear axle busted in freakin' Los Banos, one horse town. Mechanic showed me how the car wanted to "lock up" on me, grinding, creaky loud noise.

Bummer for you Ruben. I'm thinking of getting a second job (Not). . . because of Sophia being high maintenence. My injector and nose looks just like your pics! unfortunately. I thought I was doing everything right, I drove one hour and waited till the engine was very hot before filling with 7 gal of clean WVO. I really needed to have the in-line fuel heater installed to do this properly.
I'll probably buy the Plandrive two tank system with the vegtherm heaters and their fuel filters.
I'm intrigued by the hydrgen cell car or the fully electric car. Did you know that the Tesla fully electric sportscar headquarters is in San Carlos, CA.? That is only 4 miles from where I live! Did you see it of that Discovery Channel Fuels of the future program 2 weeks ago? Exciting.
F.

Ruben are you OK? You didn't get hurt from that, did you? Hope not.
F.

Im ok, i was more worried about my car then myself:P I was inches away from a parked pick-up truck when the car stopped!

Its to bad your injectors coked, i hope you didnt have any long term damage. But i think this would be a good example of what would happen even in short term with one tanking or blending as many like to do.

I saw lowered compression along with my coked injectors on my 300SD. And my SD had coolent heated filters and a inline heat exchanger. But it took over a year and many miles for it to get to that point.

Im stunned that it only took one road trip with the engine warmed up!

I've heard that it could happen in as little as 20 hours but was not counting on myself as being a casualty. I think it started a month before this trip. I was a "blender" in January, 4 gal WVO mixed with 12 gal biodiesel 50% and cetane boost. I'm very anti one tank system now. I was even telling my friend Katrina not to consider Lovecraft partly d/t they are censoring their internet forum. Sounds sketchy to me.
F.

Well, I don't see how the injectors affect the compression so I would have to assume either piston rings are leaking or valves are leaking. I haven't done a compression test in a diesel before. In a gas engine, I would do a dry test and then squirt some oil into the cylinder. If the compression goes up, the rings are probably bad. Of course a leakdown test can confirm it.

In my case, they took the thing apart to clean it.

From your more detailed description I think the injectors should be spray and presssure checked after you soak them. I see no reason you cannot deffer removing the head and dealing with the low compression cylinder till after they are installed. It should still be firing up I think and you can verify that by loosening the injector. Engine just may be a little slow getting going initially and a little less power from that cylinder. Your mechanic or you have checked the valve clearances? Especially #5? If you do decide to go further do the cylinder pressurization test to tag the problem of the lower compression to the valve before removal of the head. If it is a ring problem another used engine might be a more practical solution. Or has your mechanic already run it down to a valve for certain?

I'd save the time and just have them tested. If they are fine, you won't need to soak it or anything. If not, they will have to disassemble it anyways so the soak is not necessary.

You could save some money and instead of MMO, use diesel fuel or kerosene. That's about all that MMO is anyway as far as the solvent portion of it goes. From smelling it and feeling of it, I think it's nothing more than kerosene with a little oil of some kind.

Thanks for the input guys. Unfortunately I think the lifting of the head will be unavoidable d/t the low compression of the fifth cylinder. I'll just take it as it comes.
I hope my scenario is the same as Aklim and his gasser car. Cleaning sounds better than repairing physical damage!
I might post the findings in a few days.
Frankie

Barry-
No he has not pinpointed the valve for certain and I will ask about the vavle clearance. I am a pain in his a--- with all my questions. He has gone as far as doing the compression test on #4 and #5.
#4 result is 500 = too high= carbon build up. Does this happen with diesel fueluse at all? I know that it is common when unheated WVO is used.
I've no problems at all starting her up until a couple of days ago she hesitates for about 2 seconds then starts up fine but with a rough idle. I'm sure this is related to the cylinder.

if the test was done cold that might be ok. what were the other cylinders? it is low for sure but i think the minimum is about 220 cold for starting. if the others are above that i would think you might be ok. iow i wouldnt pull the head just yet.

tom w

Ok I'll follow your lead. I'll get all the injectors tested for pressure and spray pattern then post results and what the mechanic suggests. I prefer a conservative approach anyways.
Stay tuned.

There is a diesel injector shop in south san francisco, ill PM you the info on the shop if you want me too.

I would consider checking the valve clearances yourself if the mechanic has not checked them. Just because it should be done every 15 k and with labour rates being what they are today for starters. Also it is a pretty easy thing to do really and very hard to go wrong if you follow posted instructions. For right now you have to basically just check #5 to make sure there is some clearance. If you are in a position where you have to pay others to do everything on these cars for you they can be a moneypit. On the otherhand they are one of the few cars left out there where the owner can learn and accomplish things himself. The support available from this site makes the situation bearable and improves both your ability and judgement.

Check your valve clearances before you pull the head!

Run some biodiesel (High percentages) for a few tanks. It may help loosen the carbon buildup on the rings that is keeping them from moving and sealing properly. Cold WVO is the death of the rings. It cokes the rings and causes them to bind in place. When they do that they are not free to move and seal against the cylinder wall.

-Jim

These are great suggestions and I'm not financially ready for my mechanic to pull the head. I want to try to run B50% or higher to see if that will clean it out however my is convinced that there is some type of physical damage to the upper engine or possibly the piston/ rings. Therefore he must pull the head. He was not too keen on my conservative approach to the situation. If I run a few tanks of biodiesel,I'm worried that if the is physical damage already present, won't driving the car further damage it?
Damn I really wish there was someway of knowing for sure, physical damage without needing to pull off the engine head!

It is a gamble. It might work or it might not. I guess you need to ask yourself if you are willing AND able to take the risk.

Know anyone with a borescope?

And what is a borescope? Or are you saying that you are bored??
I won't deny that this is not an easy decision. Brightside, I have all the time in the world to figure out what to do next.

I'm worried that if I drive the car further, waiting for the biodiesel to loosen up the carbon build up, it will damage something else in the same cylinder.
Logical or irrational concern?

Think of a periscope. Now think of this periscope with a flexible neck. It allows you to do a look see in the cylinder head

Oh OK thanks Aklim! but I think I need to find another mechanic. This one is good but if I have one more suggestion on how he should do his job ie. look down there with a borescope, he'll kick my a--.
Greasy Benz (Ruben) if you are still around, I'll PM you for that diesel shop address. They would have a borescope, right?
F.

But if it is the rings, wouldn't a compression and/or leakdown test point there? Assuming the mechanic is honest and decent, wouldn't those tests have indicated that the problem lies in the head? If so, how would the rings now show up on the two tests?

I may be missing something here, but if the rings are not sealing right it will show up as lower compression on that cylinder.

As for the mechanic having a borescope, not likely. At least not for another 5 years. The prices are just way too high. Last time I checked (5 years ago) a top of the line one used to inspect the insides of huge gas turbines ran about $32,000. Hard to justify that on a car.

-Jim

So will valves not sealing right. In any case, they do a dry compression test followed by a wet one. In the wet one, some oil is squirted into the cylinder. This acts as a sealant for the cylinder. So, if the pressure goes up by more than a few psi, you might have bad rings. If the pressure doesn't change, your head is where the problem is.