sleeve removal tool for a OM617.92?
 

Anyone have a photo or drawing of a sleeve removal tool for a 617?
thank you
Omar

anyone?
 

anyone?

The sleeves are usually pressed in by a machine shop.

factory manual
 

in the factory manual there is a tool you can make to remove the sleeve ... anyone done it that way or have a photo of the tool?

I was just going to send you that manual section, do you have a copy?

Have you checked
 

Omar, have you used the search function in the dark blue line above. I am not sure that I saw a picture, but I think there are a couple of descriptions of how a DIY can do it. Just type in "remove cylinder liner"

I have searched untill I am blue there was an old tread that had photo's however the photo's are not there anymore:mad: so yes if anyone has a copy of they can send me please thank you Omar

Tool.

got one you can borrow for a while. works great.

Rick, what's your experience with knocking sleeves in and out with your tool?
I'm still debating about trying it.

thank you
 

thank you for the photo and yes I would like to borrow your cylinder liner removal tool Rick e me or pm me let me know thank you again Omar
did you press the sleeves out or use a hammer?????

I took a sleeve out of a 616 that needs rebuilt tonight and man o man are those things in there I made a tool out of 1/4 inch steel and that didnt last long bent up like a piece of paper. I ended up grinding all the way down the thing hitting it with the tool (after some repair to it) and it came right out I have 3 more to go so anyone have any ideas to make it easier

So much for my idea to try to salvage one from a bad block and transplant it to a good block that just has one bad sleeve.

Why not have your machine shop remove it? The sleeve can be bored until it's quite thin then slit with a cape chisel

That's just how one machine shop said they will do it. I wanted to resleeve one of my 617 blocks and they quoted me between $350 and $400 to do it. I also have to supply them the sleeves.
After it's resleeved I'm sure they still have to rebore them to have the pistons fit as the pistons will probably not fit right with the sleeves installed as they are. So I could imagine there's an extra charge for the extra boring to fit the pistons.

we have a large mill in our shop so I suppose I could set up a boring bar and thin the thing out a bit might give that a shot, as for the machine shop the only decent one around is an hour away and its cheaper this way were set up to do cylinder heads in shop and deck blocks I suppose (havent done one yet but its about the same as a head just taller) Ill let you know how it goes on the rest of them I figure I can remove, replace and deck the block on my own, just have to send it off to be bored to size

Pressed in dry sleeves, in my experience, always need to be bored and honed to size.
This is where the diesels' economy of operation sorta turns around and bites.

Just another reason why they're so expensive to buy already rebuilt.

well I made another tool tonight out of 1/2 steel and got a liner out about a 1/4 inch so far without hurting it at all so there is hope to get one out and reuse it, I have a 3/4 inch fine thread bolt that runs down threw a piece of 2x2 1/4 wall tube, then the screw runs down the cylinder and into the pulling plate at the bottom that is made from an old GM front wheel drive hub machined down to the proper size with a step in it to line it up inside the cylinder. By putting different spacers under the 2x2 tube you can change how far the puller will pull
takes a person standing on the block to hold it down then a breaker bar with a 4 foot piece of pipe on the end of it to get the thing to move about 3 pulls and it will pop up about 1/32 to 1/16 so its slow but it works, the IR 1/2 impact we have that puts out about 500lb wont move it a 3/4 or 1 inch drive that put down something like 1000lb might move it but would probably break the bolt so I guess Ill do it by hand
Once I make sure it works well and isnt going to break anyone who needs it can barrow it or I can make a detailed diagram and you can make your own

There may be hope after all. I'm subscribing to this thread.

How about cooling the sleeve first either ice or maybe R134?

Well got 1 out with no problem came out with no damage at all could press it back in if you wanted to, it wasnt easy to take out at all took lots of pulling on a ratchet and changing spacers once I got it out to a point where it hit on the puller but it came out so if anyone is interested I can post a picture and specs on how to make it or once I get the last 2 out your all more then welcome to barrow it

I have no idea why someone would go through this much trouble to pull a sleeve for reuse when you can buy a new one for $32.

http://catalog.worldpac.com/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&cookieid=2440YJZ0U25212RZJ5&year=1982&make=MB&model=300-DT-001&category=A&part=Cylinder+Sleeve

I agree with you there I wouldnt reuse one either but some one said they wanted to, and I needed to remove them from my block so I figured if I could make something to get them out and not damge them then why not

like to see a photo thanks
 

like to see a photo of your set up and maybe I could barrow it for a few days thanks Omar

I'm the one who wants to try to reuse a sleeve. I have a block with a bad cylinder and I also have a bad block with good cylinders.
I agree the new sleeves are fairly inexpensive but you still have to bore the new sleeves to fit the pistons. When you do one, you should do all all of them. I have a quote of about $400 to do a resleeve with bore by a machine shop. That doesn't include the cost of the sleeves. Also there is no guarantee the old pistons will fit after the boring. Then you're looking at the cost of new pistons and that is expensive.

There should be every guarantee the bore will fit the piston. I think you're being penny wise and dollar foolish by thinking that a removed and re-installed sleeve will be usable.

Dewhite2485 said he got a sleeve out undamaged and that sounds good to me. It'll be a good cylinder transplanted from a bad block. I'm sure I can ensure the sleeve will go back in the same orientation as it was in the old block. This way, I'll have a piston matched with the wear of the sleeve. It'll also salvage a doomed block that would otherwise end up going to a scrap yard.
Also there's no dollar foolishness here. I'll be saving a small fortune not going with a complete rebuild. This will be a good way to test out my theory. It's worth a try.

Please let us know how it turns out.

If I don't find another reasonably priced used engine first, I will.

I removed all five
 

I removed all five sleeves. I used my wire feed welder. Turn it down to low then run about 6 beads the lenth of the cylinde sleeve. Then I built a bead about 1/4 inch for about 1 1/2 inches on the bottom of the sleeve about 1 inch up. I used a pipe and hammer to hit the welds at the bottom. Once they start to move they come out farely simple. It took me about 30 minutes a sleeve from start to finish. Remember let it cool a little when doing the 1/4 inch beads. Do not penatrate the sleeve and hit the block!!!

Ed

Conventional approach used on large diesels by many mechanics and shops. Shrinks the liner enough to remove much easier.Actually removes the tension as the liner contracts a little from the upset of it's integrity by the weld.

As mentioned the liner thickness cannot be breached with weld.. The new liners will still have to be pressed in. For best effect a light weld from top to bottom will remove most liner pressure. A quick vertical down weld with a stick welder is the best bet. The amperage has to be kept down. You are just trying to upset the liner metal basically.

Using a used liner in another block of this type is questionable. One reason the allowance is made for machining with a new one is to deal with concetric problems in the cast iron block. That is why a new set of liners in an old block can result in a superior bore. The cast iron is not green any more but well aged and stable.Unless really aged after casting and before machining for the liner at the factory it is not all that stable.

The used liner should be measured carefully before and after transfer to the other block to find out if the move worked. distortions introduced by the cast iron bore might upset things.

Then there may be a pesky issue with the deck clearance once the used liner is installed. It was already shaved to match the block it came from. So a critical length measurement should be made between the donar and reciepient cylinders liners before starting. I am not saying it cannot work to transfer a used liner on a 616 617 or 603 but it is a challenge.

You could ask them about the charge to just do one liner. This is not unknown.

Does anyone know the ID of a New Sleeve?

Added for clarification:
What I mean is what is the ID of a Sleeve when you purchase one. Not the ID after it is bored to fit the Pistons.

The number one sleeve may be different size than the rest...or it may have to be honed out to a different size...

Mercedes tries to machine all the bores the same. No difference between #1 and rest of the cylinders. What happens after the machining process, the factory would choose a group of pistons out of three groups that matches the cylinder. Hence the perception one cylinder maybe bigger/smaller then the others.

617.95x info..
Group 0 = piston dia. 90.845-90.855 mm = cyinder dia. 90.898-90.908 mm

Group 1 = piston dia. 90.855-90.865 mm = cyinder dia. 90.908-90.918 mm

Group 2 = piston dia. 90.865-90.875 mm = cyinder dia. 90.918-90.928 mm


p/n 6160111210 Replacement Cylinder liners are rough honed to 89.9 mm.



.

The NUMBER ONE CYLINDER BORE IS A DIFFERENT SIZE THAN 2-4 on four cylinders , OR 2-5 CYLINDERS on 5 cylinders....

I have to respectively disagree at least for the 617.95x turbo motor. Piston size is a selective fit.




.

You are correct for the Turbo...
Had the 616 manual out...so my statement is modified to add NA.

For the 617.95x TURBO motor they are the same.

The NUMBER ONE CYLINDER BORE IS A DIFFERENT SIZE THAN 2-4 on four

cylinders , OR 2-5 CYLINDERS on NA 5 cylinders....

What I mean is what is the ID of a Sleeve when you purchase one. Not the ID after it is bored to fit the Pistons.

Thanks, I think you answered my question.

Also none of the Part Sellers I have seen sell a special Cylinder Liner for #1.

This info comes from the Technical Data Passenger Cars printed by Mercedes-Benz in 1990.
Page 95
"Cylinder Bores
Engine 616, 617.912, 617.95 (on all it also has see note #6) The
Standard dim. = 90.989-90.928

Note #6= For diesel engines normal dimensions only, no repair stages (from what I read repair stages means oversized bores as were shown on the gas engines). Diameter of 1st cylinder larger by 0.01mm (except engine 617.95)"

I take the "except engine 617.95" to mean that 617.95 Engines do not have the 1st Cylinder larger by 0.01mm

Also in the 617.95 Engine Rapair manual they do not list a separate bore diameter for #1 Cylinder.
There is a coordination piston-cylinder chart to match the Piston Group size to different cylinder bore ranges within the standard bore limits.

You quoted me from before I corrected the statement in post number 39 shown above.....

Where can I get some cheap sleeves now that I have mine out??? Ed

Does Fastlane at the top of the page not carry them ?

Don't know about the quality or brand. But certainly very cheap. It's only for one, if you contact them, they might have more if you want to take a chance.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-240D-300D-350TD-Engine-Cylinder-Liner-Piston-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5643a7a98bQQitemZ370502248843QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries



.

check your pm's

I made one from a discarded tool for centering the timing cover on a 6.9 Litre Navistar Diesels. I drive the sleeves out with a hammer and press them back into place in a hydraulic press.

Do not hammer them in. They break easily.

The sleeves are undersize and will need to be bored and them honed to fit your pistons. You will also have to trim the tops of the sleeves in a mill as they will protrude above the deck.

Most shops (around here in Central California) charge $8.00 to $12.00 a hole to bore and hone and anywhere from $35.00 to $65.00 to deck the block.

note; Each bore is supposed to be bored according to the piston which is going into it.
The tops will have to be trimmed...but still stick out above the top of the block...
You need to read the shop manual before you go much farther... you can not do it correctly just from information from the forum....
All sorts of things are very specific... the chamfering inside the top which allows the piston rings to be squeezed into the bore.... etc....

My engine is a 1979 om617.952, rescued from the corner of a warehouse in 2012.
It had compression between 100psi and 250psi cold. I have the shop manual and have read through it.

In 2013 it was torn down, head done up, crank worked up including balance, block sleeved
and bored, then it sat. That machine shop has since closed down.

It is with another machinist now. We re-measured the crank, pistons, bores and sent all to the
hot tank.

The main and rod grinds as sitting appear to be in between STD and 1st spec, (2.7451-2.7458),
so I get to pay for another grind and polish, hooray!
The wrist pins in their bushings have a little play, so the bushings will be replaced. Another good
catch.
Appearance of pistons and bores are fine, no sign of seizure, scrape or pitting. This should be more
apparent after cleaning.

The pistons all say "1" (group 1?). We measured one at 3.761. We measured by difference the
piston-cylinder gaps. They were between 0.0025 to 0.0030, which is outside the spec
of 0.0017 to 0.0025.

I didn't get 100% satisfaction with the measuring because the guy seemed to be using measurement
shortcuts, so I plan to go back after everything is cleaned up real well, make absolute measurements,
document them in a clear table, and derive the differences from that.

Main question is that its possible the bores suck and we need to start over with new liners.
I am not confident about making this decision. I can get 5 Mahle liners for $125, so expecting
this to be a $400 decision. I'm looking for guidance from this forum before making additional instructions to the machinist.

The original idea was to pay machinist time to have them expertly measure, learn a lot about
the calculations and plan next steps.
The errors we found in the preceding work signals that participation in the measurement
and work order is necessary, but I could be happier with the organization of info and
patience/completeness of answers I'm getting, even after expressing my intent to learn from it
and do some followon projects. Perhaps they're thinking more about liability than information.

I'm in norcal (94306), machine shop choices are dwindling, so at this point am willing to travel
100 miles or more to work with a more om617-experienced technician who communicates well.

Got any leads?

thanks,
Stuart