Can blow by be fixed by honing and new rings on 245K mile motor?
 

Can you put rings in a 245K mile motor or does the motor most likely need new sleeves and pistons? Just curious if anyone has tried just rings in here?
Thanks,
Dave

The only way to tell anything is by removing the head and measuring the taper in the cylinder. If it is within specs you can hone and ring. If not then sleeves are in order.

If it starts and runs well you probably should keep driving it.

Tom W

I was thinking the same, just curious, thats all.

Short answer...no

At 245K, chances are you will need new pistons.

I think tryin to fix blow-by is like tryin to cure diesel clatter and rattle. If it runs then drive it as Tom said. And never heard of diesel engine not lasting 350k+ miles if maintained. Rules of these beasts is either they run with tight compression or they dont. Why should anybody care if intake manifold drinks oil from the crankcase? Hell, its probly one of several diesel features that adds to engine longevity.

Your "curiosity" is ridiculous and has nothin to do with sustaining the car at optimum performance level, given its mileage and potential for another couple hundred thousand miles. At that mileage I'd worry more about timing chain-stretch than anything else.

Thanks for your input about the time chain stretch, but my curiosity is how I learn.
Dave

You can, but if you're taking the head off, you may as well put in new seals, seats, grind the valves, put in new retainers, and throw pistons and bearings at the thing...It won't be very expensive and it will be like new afterwards...

Nick

Dieseldog is usually more friendly in his comments. I doubt he meant to be too harsh.

Good luck with your diesel.

Tom W

Not very expensive is not a term I would use in describing all the work above.

Most likely most of the above will not be needed, but if you take the head off you should definately have a professional machinist check them for conformance to mercedes specs for usable parts.

Tom W

any machinist that knows how to compare numbers can do it, ;)

$1288.86 for a set of Mahle pistons :eek:

I'll run it after I check the time chain and fix any oil leaks....

"Someday" I'd like to rebuild one, but I'd rather drive em.

I've heard the pistons can be reused and seldom need replacement unless you can't match them back into the block after re-sleaving.

I've never heard anyone ever successfully rebuilding a 617. too expensive, too crap diesel guzzling of an engine to even mess with etc etc. but that's from a professional point of view. (mine, in a way, but mostly the people I work with)
what engine are we talking about here anyway?

I have done a three of them, two turbos and one na. I have one of each at present.

Working just fine thank you.

They aren't cheap to rebuild though, even if you don't buy new pistons, which we usually don't need.

Tom W

No you only tear down a 245k mile engine for a rebuild. On a 617 figure about $5k to do it right. Of course if you want to do it cheap, it will be less. But cheap and right are different things.;)

Cheap and right never go together in the same sentence about rebuilt 617's unless they say right into the scrapper.

around 275 to 300k a 300 turbo will need a head gasket. while it is off you may as well do a valve job. it may well need guides and a few valves as well. and perhaps a few valve springs. cam chain and guides and the lower oil pump chain too.

but the bottom end is probably pristine and usable with no work at all if it has been cared for at all.

None of it is cheap though.

But a 617 or 616 is one of the best engines to rebuild since when you finish it is just like a new engine again, and will go for a very long time with nothing but oil and filter changes and a valve adjustment from time to time.

Tom W

and a 603 is one of the best engines to rebuild since when you finish it is just like new again and will go for a long time with no valve adjustments at all :P
Sorry, I had to throw that one in
I did replace the rings in my 603, not a bore, we just honed the lip and scored the cylinder walls, well I did the rings removal and cleaned the grooves in the pistons (yep, we reused the old pistons) and my mechanic friend did the cylinder work, heck I'm not a mechanic in the first place :rolleyes: but I wanted to see if its true what I was told that new rings (in the old cylinders) will give an old engine a new lease on life, reduce oil consumption and increase compression and I can safely say its true!
My other (er my wife's) '87 300D is almost the same mileage as the one I did the rings on and it is a little harder to start and is using some oil, not a lot but more than the engine with new rings. I did have to baby it thru a break in period though.
Deves rings BTW, they are excellent, use nothing else.

The correct proceedure is to bore the new sleeve and hone to match the piston whether it is new or used.

Tom W

Interesting post. I'm talking about the 617.

I've got a dead block complete with crank, rods and pistons sitting in a yard in New Orleans in case anyone gets frisky about some learnin'

there for the taking

240D crate eng.
 

Saw a 240D crate engine on e-bay last night, might be worth checking out. I think it has a week to go

charlie

I'll bet its big bucks http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280152111049&rd=1

http://i21.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/b5/a7/2be3_12.JPG

Wow what a perfect engine for a really nice, but high mileage 240D. Bet it goes for $3k-$4k.

Pistons alone will be $1200.
That's expensive.

Then, there's the rest of the rebuild. That more expensive. I don't think you quite understand the rebuild process on these engines.

No, that's typical for him.

240 crate engine
 

The 240D crate engine is up to $1225.00. only 22 hrs to go. cheaper
than a rebuild.

Charlie

Damn brother, I credit my curiousity with a number of life changing/enlightenting experiences. Curious as to what made you so prone to condensending pontification.??

See always curious.! :D

Thats a steal! Go to the dealer and you will spend about $4k for that. You cannot get pistons that cheap, let alone do a factory quality rebuild.

If I had a 240D I really liked, and had some spare cash I'd snag that. If you could get it for $1,500, you could really freshen up a 200k+ mile 240D for a reasonable sum.

Wow, that is deal. It would almost be worth picking it up for future use (except it will take my wife about 100 years to wear out the engine in hers at the current rate). Now if someone can find a $1200 617 turbo, I'll all over it.

I can't beleive its not going for more.

Is the auction over?

Tom W

7 hours left, still under $1300.

Retail for the pistons might be $1200.00 wherever you are, but check around a little, I've found them for as little as $400.00 for a complete set, (Mercedes, O.E.!!) in the very recent past for one of my 79 300CD's. I fully understand what goes into building/rebuilding one of these engines.

Last one I did, pistons were $100 ea for OEM. The rebuild cost me about 3K but that includes new radiator, starter, alternator, belts, clutch parts. Really nice too be driving a car with an engine you've seen the inside of:D

well the E-Bay 240D crate engine sold for $1825.00. some body is excited.
thought it would go for at least $2500.00.
almost like they gave it away.

Charlie

I just looked at all the pictures, it sure looks like the real factory deal, though from the wording of the ad it might not have been.

Somebody got it for a good deal less than the new parts that came in it not to mention the block and basic parts.

A steal, but with the economy the way it is that is how it will go.

A good time to buy suckky time to sell.

Tom W

These types of auctions are what make Ebay exciting. The only thing I would be concerned with is how long has it been sitting and how was it stored, but chances are theres no rust on the cylinder walls as I'm sure MB put oil on them.

that new block looked awesome! I wish I could find somebody that wanted a slew of NEW MB 240D rebuild stuff... head, etc...

ummm
 

ummm, are you kidding?

Back to the ebay auction though. I had bid 1800 for it, and got an email from the seller an hour before the bidding closed saying he had "another one" that he'd sell to me for that much. sound fishy? was he shill bidding and the higher bid wasn't legit? what do you think? I'd sure like that engine for 1800.

dale 240D

Well he did say in the auction:

Three of these 4-Cylinder Diesel Mercedes crate engines were discovered; two have been sold and installed locally

Maybe one of the local deals fell through?

ebay engine
 

but why would he contact me before the sale ended?
the reason i'm still on this thread is because i JUST pulled my engine to replace the sleeves and rings because of blowby. i then saw the ebay listing and thought wow, for a grand more and a 12 hour drive to houston i could have a brand new engine instead of just new rings and sleeves.
I'm just wary of the seller now because of what i'm perceiving to be "shenanigans"(that's still a word isn't it?)
by the way i haven't responded to him yet. wanted peoples opinions before i did.

dale

On the piston prices: there are a few companys that will MAKE a set of pistons for far less than oem.


Diamond pistons here in Clinton Twp. MI does fine work - and can churn out a set for cheap.

Are you sure you are being contacted by the actual seller of that listing. I've had numerous bogus contacts after unsuccessful bids on expensive items.
Beware!

Could my engine have been rebuilt?
 

Is there any way to tell if my engine has been rebuiilt?

I would look at the joints between the head and block for slobbery sealant. The factory wouldnt have had that, also at the pan gasket for the same stuff. Other than that probably hard to tell without a teardown and look at parts for the mfgr year.

Tom W

I would look at the joints between the head and block for slobbery sealant. The factory wouldnt have had that, also at the pan gasket for the same stuff. Other than that probably hard to tell without a teardown and look at parts for the mfgr year. Bores could be measured for stock dimensions too, and an experienced machinist could probably look at valves and seats and see if they had been out and worked on.

Tom W

Oh, ok, so no real way to tell from the outside.

I KNOW someone's been at the IP for timing (cuz there's marks) and I think someone was in my turbo, when I took it apart the compressor housing bolts had loctite on them and it looked fairly fresh (i've owned for 3 and known the car for 5) and I know it's not the PO but maybe the PO's PO :D

I think loctite can look new for quite some time. Mercedes uses it in lots of different places.