Advice for a friend of mine selling his '77 300d

[TylerH860]

Its rare to find a good diesel in my area (Wichita, KS) and a friend of mine has been trying to part ways with his '77 300d non-turbo for some time. 92k original miles, pristine PRISTINE chocolate interior, dime to quarter size rust bubbling in usual quarter panel and fender spots, barely noticable. No obvious dents, dings, or chips, Paints still amazing. Everything works and its had the full used car dealership detail treatment. Shows very well. He's lowered his price to $4800.00. I told him it may take another thousand off before he sells it. You all buy and sell these cars like crazy so I thought I'd go to the direct authority and find out what you think. This is the only pic I could find with the same color. What would you buy it for?


What's the most you've ever paid for an old diesel?

or would pay for lets say a perfect 100,000 original miles with documented near perfect maintainence since birth w123 later turbo.

[TX76513]

Having lived in Do Da I know they salt the crap out of the roads in the winter. Have you looked underneath to see what rust damage is present. Low mile MB's are great but rust is the killer. If the only rust is what you mentioned it would be of great value to the owner to have those areas taken care of - saying rust free is worth $$

[TylerH860]

I got down on all fours and looked under it today, looks fine from what I can see. Winters here are pretty mild. I didn't want to deal with any rust and I wanted a turbo, that's why I bought mine instead of this one.

[junqueyardjim]

It is going to take a real Benz addict to go for the car for such a high price. and the person who has been looking for a nice Benz, low mileage, ect wants two things, no rust and a turbo. It would take a lot more then a $1000.00 reduction in price for me to be interested in it. I would say with rust bubbles showing, $1500.00 is all it will bring. If it shows rust under the carpet mats, behind the battery box and has cracks in the undercoat leading to rust in the floor, you have a $500.00 car. Remember, it is a 1977 car with not too much to offer.

[TylerH860]

I bet if he put a lovecraft system on it and drove to California he could get some genius to pay more than his asking price. lol. I about threw up when I saw a 200,000 diesel wagon sell for 13,000 with a cheap respray and a lovecraft system.

Personally, I would not buy a rust car for any price. If he is serious about selling it he should have the rust fixed correctly; unfortunately that is likely to cost a couple $1000. Otherwise, he will get what he gets.

[300SDog]

Head up his ass thinkin $4.8 with dollar sized rust "on all the usual places." And suspiciously low miles - been offroad 20 yrs and possibly stored outside??? Easily the worst form of abuse these cars can endure.

All-time crummiest MB i ever bought was ridiculously low 54k mile 20 yr old 250/8 back in 1990's. Not just pitted bores but host of electric probs with starter and alternator dying 3-6 months later. Finally i took loss and flipped it for peanuts when trans started flaring between shifts. Easily the worst lemmon I've ever owned...... immac, scarey low mileage, perfect original paint 20 yr old MB stored in outdoor garage most its life.

Am now surprised to see folks attach weird high dollar "value" to ultra-low mile 25-30 yr old MB's. Truth is diesel steadily driven and maintained with 197k gonna be better than one with *rust and low mileage combo* 97k with 30 years sittin undriven?

Realistically its worth $1200 this time of year sight unseen, says me. But then I wouldnt buy from used car lot, knowin they're masters of deception at hiding serious problems. Figure on payin double initial cost there too.

[JimmyL]

Well, I'll say it a little more politely than old DieselDog, but that price is 3 times what a knowledgeable MB owner would pay. Even less for me. A '77 has a lot of one or two year only setups and parts.
I wish him luck, but that would be wishing bad luck on the buyer. Help him with reality.....

[TylerH860]

What's the most you've ever paid for an old diesel?

or would pay for lets say a perfect 100,000 original miles with documented near perfect maintainence since birth w123 later turbo.

[JimmyL]

$1800 bucks for my first wagon.{the beloved Smoker} Haven't paid half that for any of my other vehicles since. Have to wait for right place, right time.....
And I usually have to buy them with "issues" that I can handle the repair of.

[yellowbenz]

If that's what he wants tell him to put it on Ebay. I haven't been there for awhile, thankfully, but he'll easily get that or more with a nice description.

Kevin
1978 300D
1979 240D manual

[kerry]

In 2001 I paid $4500 for a one owner 77 300d with 45k miles garage kept it's whole life. I thought it was a little high but not out of line completely. I now have 75k on it.

[toomany MBZ]

Three and a half years ago $10,000 for the CD with 83k on it, everything works. Zero issues. Has around 116k now, purrs.

Edit, more pics.

[JimFreeh]

According to price, here's my ranking....

85 300TD
85 300CD
85 300D
81-84 300TD
82-85 300CD
82-84 300D
80-83 240D manual

For non turbo 300s, similar ranking, followed by the 240D auto bringing up the bottom.

85s are most desirable, due to rear end ratio and torque converter change.
Next are the turbo diesels from 81-84.
The oddball is the manual tranny 240D, demand exceeds supply.

Non turbo 300 diesels from 80-82 are next.

Anything 79 and down is much less desirable than the last of the breed. Glow plug system, upholstery, lots of little differences. Most of these early cars have now gone to MB heaven, so specific early stuff is getting hard to find.

280E and 280CE are in the hunt, but the US versions had rather low power compared to the euros, and mileage was poor for what power you got.

Euro versions have pitfalls, some can be hard to insure, and getting unique parts can be a hassle. Upside is lower purchase price, cool bumpers, and the possibility of option combinations not available on US versions. Figure euro versions are worth 1/3 to 1/2 less than US cars. Of sourse if you find a 5 speed manual 280CE, this rule may not hold.

What to look for:

Condition - If you see a little rust, you'll eventually find a hell of a lot more before you are finished. Rust free is THE big thing on W123 chassis. Big premium for no rust. Southwest cars are good for this, but most hot, dry country cars require substantial rubber replacement, and this can get to be very expensive if done right.

Maintenance - Records, records, records. So what if the car "shows" low mileage. Odometers are notorious for breaking. It's not hard at all to "clock" the odometer when you are fixing the broken ones. Maybe it has low miles, maybe not. But if you have a paper trail showing consistent increases, it's much easier to prove it.

As a subset of this, an original car with no record of major suspension work, subframe/diff mounts, seals, etc, etc. is likely going to need thousands of dollars poured into it to bring it up to speed. A well maintained car with high mileage, but with all repairs and maintenance kept up to date, will only need to be enjoyed.

Appearance - It's not hard to spend $4k for a nice paint job. Yea, yea, I know you can put it on with a roller and wet sand it for $50.00. What YOUR tme worth? Top quality paint materials alone will cost near $1k. So, how nice is the paint and bodywork? Nice cars get top dollar.

Interior - Carpet sets and seat covers and dashboards are not cheap. I laugh at the adds that say perfect interior, except for driver's seat, driver's carpet, and dash has cracks.... Ever try to find a driver's side carpet that is perfect? Got to buy the whole set $$$$$. Passenger seat can be subbed for the driver's if you swap the armrest, but still you have to find a perfect 20 year old seat. This takes lots of time, what's your worth? New uhpolsterycan be had, but again it adds up. Dashboard, priced one lately? Sure, you can install a coverlay, but I can tell it's not original, can't you?

Driveline is important, but it can all be refurbished if needed. A well kept car with records should not have any surprises in this area, unless something catastrophic has happened. A nice, well maintained car that just lost it's tranny CAN be a really good buy! A beat looking car, on the other hand, is likely to have deferred maintenance on the mechanics as well.

Good, clean 300D turbo sedans have been consistently selling on ebay for $7-10K. Some low mileage, several with well over 200k on them. Let's assume that represents the value of a ready to go, not needing anything significant car. Start deducting everything the subject car needs from that price range, and you then know what to pay for the car you are considering. Doing this, often will result in a negative value. The only way around this is to introduce your labor as a substitute for the mechanic's, and don't pay your self anything.

Two reasons to do this: First, I enjoy working on cars, it's my therapy and hobby. Second, I can get a car that I otherwise could not afford, if I can recognize what it needs and am willing to do it myself.

Jim

[Mark DiSilvestro]

I paid $225 for an '82 AT 240D with a broken left rear control-arm, and $600 for a driveable '81 MT 240D.
Both cars had some 'rust bubbles in the usual places' and the worst was in the floors/sills under the front seats. In addition to the rust repairs, I put several hundred dollars in parts into the '82. Much less in the '81 as it was in much better mechanical condition, including a working AC!
Sellers of the '82 had no idea about the extent of the rust as most of the undercoat still looked OK and the 6 year-old re-paint still looked great.
Fortunately, I've gotten pretty good at fabricating floor repair-panels from heavy-guage galvanised steel. I'd have paid alot more for a rust-free example, but not the $7000 a seller was asking for an allegedly 'perfect' 240D in my area last year.

Happy Motoring, Mark