Monark vs. Bosio nozzles
 

Any body know the differences between the two. Curious if the monark are nozzles are factory spec bosch(quality) or enhanced like the bosios. Am currently looking at the two, and $200 vs $100 for possibly the same nozzle leaves me some definite wiggle room.
thanks

I would use Bosio or Bosch. Never heard of Monarch.

Apparently the monark nozzles are manufactured in germany. They are supposed to be oem quality, but so is Fram. One other person on this forum has used them with good results. I am more interested in the spray pattern quality/improvements over stock. With bosch's decline in quality and manufacturing in India, I thought i had read that bosio was manu facturing in India as well. Why buy Indian made Italian nozzles when i could get german at half the price. ANY input would be appreciated.

Thanks for the info. I have to agree with you line of thought.

I can't speak for Monark nozzle quality first-hand, but a few people here should be able to. Suggestions have been made that they may not be any better than the MICO Bosch parts made in India, (Non MB parts.) However, initial satisfaction with them seems good from the non-MB crowd, as well as the MB owners. If you're up for experimenting, give it a shot. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. :)

Don't buy their glow plugs, though. Those get a definite "F" grade from just about everyone.

Do report back on how they've performed after many miles. Most Monark nozzle references among MB users seems to end with, "It runs great now. I'll post about how well they hold up." Then we never hear about them again. Heck, even the India nozzled cars usually run great at first, so that's not a good basis for a purchasing decision. Frustrating, wouldn't you say?

a wiggle wiggle woo a wiggle wiggle wuh.....
you said wiggle room. haha. sorry. johnson automotive commercials are the best.

They
 

were making diesel components when Bosch was just in electrical parts.

Jesus...
 

If you read this, I got your email. Write me again I deleted it accidentally.

The bosio nozzles are definatley made in Italy....it says it all over the packaging. And they work very well. I've been running them for about 8k now....4 months or so. Excellent nozzles.

From the internet searches that I have done:
Monark users claim OEM quality the way it used to be (not the OEM India quality) and a quieter idle. The adds always say replace as a set indicating to me that there is some differance in their construction (perhaps how the pintel is ground or the nozzle hole size).
(I a guessing but the nozzles from my car have a tiny hole cross drilled at the base of the part of the pinte part that protrudes from the injector nozzlel; maybe the Monark nozzles do not have that extra hole in the pintels.)
Bosio nozzle users claim better than OEM quality and better "seat of the pants" performance when you step on the pedal and a little more or no reduction in noise at idle.
I have only read one bad article and it was in this forum concerning Bosio nozzles. The member had 1 of a new set of nozzles go bad and returned it to the Bosio rep. in the US and was told it was caused by the WVO use.

"cross drilled" pintles
 

What most who have the old SD 240 design are seeing is the pilot injection hole. The purpose was to quiet the engine, and it did. BUT, this was designed when the rest of the car was not as well insulated as they became by the mid 1980s. The trade off is more fuel consumption and emissions.

The 240 design was updated to the 256, 261 and the last is 265. In some German manuals and catalogs each subsequent number is listed "for retrofit of previous" or something to that effect. I also saw one footnote for the SD 265 - "suitable for use with vegetable oil" but I was not able to cross reference that.

Monark are stock design, ISO 9001:2000 and TUV certified.

Uughghh
 

"WE AIM TO PLEASE- :rolleyes:"

I agree, Badger should get together with Trunk Monkey.

Monark Nozzles
 

I have chosen the monark nozzles. Mostly because they are German manufactured. Not that i am not impressed by the comments from others about bosio nozzles and their performance gains. I will not deny that bosio is a quality product, I am not willing to pay more when i do not have to. I did a lot of research before making my decision and do not make decisions litely.
I appreciate all of C Sean Watts input as it was very helpful in solidifying my decision.
I think that any new set of nozzles will be an improvement over a set with 200kms on the clock. I also expect to see an improvement in acceleration since these nozzles have had several updates since inception.
I think CSW has a lot of valuable information regarding this product and that should anyone else request info on these nozzles, he is the man to ask. I only wish i had gotten your email earlier CSW as i had ordered a set three hours prior to recieving your email.
I will follow up on these nozzles later.

Lastly, i will say that one of the influencing factors about these nozzles is that they are german made, and italian made in india(as i have heard about the bosio fratelli).
However, this is one persons opinion.

New Monark nozzles in, wow!
 

Got my new nozzles(monark) in 2 days ago, and put them in yesterday. Wow. My car was a slug off the line with 267,000 miles. Not any more. Gets up and goes very quickly with very little throttle. Again, very quick off the line. The one thing i did not realize, is how small the nozzles actually are. Very quiet and very smooth. No smoke on acceleration that i can see. Car runs much quieter on the freeway and much,much smoother. Probably using half as much throttle to do the same. Also noticed transmission shifts much smoother than before also. Nozzles were packaged individually in a sealed hard plastic container with a lid and prelubricated. Immaculate machining. Glass finish on the nozzles. 125$ for a set of 5. One thing I noticed is that i a few different nozzles. Not to say that they are not set at the same pop pressures. Pintle tip is smaller than the head of a needle.
Would highly recommend these nozzles to any considering new nozzles.
Drive diesels from cats, detroits, and powerjokes.
Very noticeable improvement.
Best of all, $125 for a set.

Can you suggest a source?

Where did you buy them from and what country were they made in?
Also many thanks for giving us a conclusion. Many people get there answers from this forum and we never hear from them again!!!

source
 

I would like to know of some other sources of Monark injector nozzles!!!

Glad to hear the improvement
 

and not to rain on your parade but I sell them for $19.70 each.

Hope you got my message. Let me know when they arrive an what the shipping will be to Long Beach, CA 90810-3530.

Yes,
 

Hessianimports@bellsouth.net

Update Today
 

They're here...nozzles, shims, springs, heat shields, a few new injectors and some nozzles and heat shields for VW 1.6L, also.

Held up in customs for two weeks.

More info...
 

What ever brand anyone decides on ...

This is from Monark Diesel's technical department. (I think I translated it all correctly)

TESTING AND ADJUSTING
Nozzle needle and body are lap fitted to each other and should never be mismatched.
Testing should be carried out with clean diesel fuel oil or test oil meeting ISO 4113.
NEVER USE GASOLINE FOR TESTING! EXPLOSION OR FIRE COULD RESULT.
Keep hands away from nozzle spray. It can penetrate deep into the skin and and destroy the tissues. Fuel oil in the blood stream can cause blood poisoning.

Clean all nozzles.
Remove special conservation oil completely from new nozzles by washing them in clean gasoline.
Clean used nozzles of soot and carbon and likewise wash in gasoline. Allow them to dry then dip nozzles in clean fuel oil and insert them into injector body.

Testing.
When assembling, hand center and tighten before tightening with a wrench. Cap nut torques: 'P' nozzle 30-50Nm, 'S' nozzle 50-90Nm, 'T' nozzle 80-100Nm (verify for your specific application)
Verify nozzle is not jammed by connecting to the tester with the gauge stopcock OFF.
Operate the pump lever several times, forcefully about 6-8 pumps per second. If the needle is not jammed, the nozzle should chatter with a shrill whistle. If not, loosen the cap nut, rotate the nozzle and tighten. NOTE: hole type nozzles (IE: SD 240) will not chatter like pintle type nozzles even when the lever is pumped quickly.

Opening (pop) pressure.
Pressure is specific to your engine. Adjust it accordingly. It is sometimes stamped on the injector body.
CAUTION: WHEN PRESSURE GAUGE IS BEING USED increase and decrease pressure slowly or gauge damage may result. Slowly increase the pressure until slight chattering, read indicated pressure. Turn adjusting screw or change shims as necessary. When the lever is operated slowly (1-2 pumps per second) all nozzles should spray/chatter. However, the spray need not be even or well atomized.

Leakage test.
Operate lever until gauge indicates 20 bar (285 psi) below specified pressure. The nozzle does not leak if no drop of fuel falls from the nozzle in 10 seconds.

Chatter and spray pattern.
Close the gauge stopcock. Spray pattern is observed when the lever is pumped rapidly (4-6 per second.)
The pattern for pintle and throttle nozzles should be even and well atomized. For hole type nozzles, full and finely atomized.

Cleanliness is essential when testing. The test area should be free of dust and dirt. Only use clean diesel fuel or test oil.
__________________

While I can't speak to the quality of Bosio Nozzles, I can speak to the quality of Monark nozzles. I just installed the DNOSD261 equivalent nozzles and WOW, what a difference in running quality!!! Seems like more power off the line, and quicker throttle response. Definitely idles more quietly. Has more of a diesel sound to it when accelerating - which I like. They were on sale at ************** for $99 (set of 5).

Having installed this nozzle version, I would not go back to the original DNOSD240/ Bosch nozzle.

I'm very pleased with the performance of my "85" 240D after installing my injectors with "Monark" nozzles from C Sean Watts, quick, friendly service too. I will do it again;)

you are using the 261 nozzle?, why not the 265?, or did you mean 265 when u said "equivalent"

definitely German
 

http://www.monark.de/englisch/produktion.htm

definitely German

What suprised me about the Monark nozzles is that when I pop-tested the injectors I found that all of the spray nozzles were uniformly good. My experience with Bosch nozzles when I worked if a fuel injection shop was that in a set of Bosch (all German back at that time) nozzles is that some would be good, some middling and some very marginal and the most would not make that chattering or squeaking that excellent nozzles make. Bosch actually changed their specs back then to say that their nozzles no longer had to make that sound (which is one of the indications of how well the pintel is seated in the nozzle) as long as the nozzle seats passed the leak test.
So I would not hesitate to get another set from Sean C Watts if I needed them.

D911, do you think pop testing is absolutely necessary? I am thinking about getting a set of Monarks. I guess I can always try putting them in without pop testing and see if it performs properly... and if not then may be do the test.

What do you think?

You can get a pop tester here: http://www.**************.com. It even comes with a book explaining how to properly test the injectors. Some people have bad things to say about this site but I have never had a problem. In fact, I've had really good experiences buying used parts and other things. I actually just ordered their pop tester to do my injectors.

Scott

Everybody has to make their own decisions on that; I say yes it is clearly best to have them pop tested when replacing the Spray Nozzle (and also to lap the internal precision surfaces before assembly).
Maybe I can explain it a little better.
There are a couple of things that happen as injectors are used. 1- The Pintel seating area in the spray nozzle wears out and they start to dribble raw/un-atomized fuel before their set pop/opening pressure is reached. 2- The tension in the spring inside of the injectors tends to weaken with use and when tested the pop/opening pressure is after many years of use lower than spec and they are not balanced between the set of injectors.
If you know the seat in the injector Spray Nozzle the is no good (you test for this on the pop tester). You will get improvement just by changing the Spray Nozzle (Diesel Giant has a how to do; do one nozzle at a time to keep the parts together for that nozzle). But the dimensions of the new Spray Nozzle may not be the same as the old one (especially Monark vs. Bosch) and this will change the tension on the spring in the injector. Meaning that the Pop/opening pressure of the nozzle will change and they will not be balanced between the other injectors (your injectors all could have different pop pressures; maybe out of spec; no way to tell without pop testing).
The pop/opening pressure of the nozzle also has an effect on your injection timing. Lower pressure injects the fuel sooner than a higher pressure.

Depending on my fanancial situation at the time I could see myself only changing the Spray Nozzle with out pop testing if my car was running poorly.
In my case when I bought a diesel car (Volvo) in 1992 I knew the injectors neededrebuilding and I bought a cheap ($150)Chinese Pop Tester right from the start. I figured a good part of the purchasecost of the pop tester would would be saved by not having to have 6 injectors rebuilt in a shop.

Thats a pretty nice unit that he came up with over at **************.....I may consider one in the future..... it practically costs that much to have a shop do a set or two of injectors....so why not have your own! :D ;)

Last week one of the members posted how he/she made one from a jack similar to the mercedes source one.
I found the thread: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=224334&highlight=pop+tester
His homemade pop tester I believe is better than the ************** one as I do not think the ************** pop tester had a valve that cuts off the gauge.Though this valve is not 100% needed it protects the gauge when you want to do some serious pumping on the tester handle.
Perhaps he could be prevailed upon to produce some more for sale

Does C Sean Watts still have any monark nozzles available? We may be interested in a set soon for our project car.....

C Sean Watts is also his member name. Go to the top and do a search and when you find him send him a private massage.

Still working on that
 

Got lost in customs - resubmitted. I appreciate your patience and patronage.

I saw several places where you can buy Monark nozzles online for around $25 each. Just google it.

Cool....I shall look into that if we do decide to do a nozzle swap on the ones we have for the new motor.....we may get them tested first to see how they are currently.

If anyone is still on this thread.
 

They have arrived!

Good news! Yes, there are others selling them but I prefer to support an active member on this forum.

10K miles on monarks now
 

10k on my monarks now. I must say i am not disappointed with my decision. And now that i actually have boost again, what a difference. Seems the pop off valve line had a hidden crack. Not bad for 24 year old rubber. Runs better than ever. Definitely sold on monarks from here on out.

I also like the Monark nozzles!

The 87 Mercedes 300TD I recently got had service records for the last 80k miles, now at 243k. Nothing in them about injectors. So I pulled the injector nozzles, tested on my homemade pop tester, they were all near 1900psi, just below the low end of the recommended 1957psi. They sprayed a solid stream, not a cone. They were made in India bosch nozzles. I replaced them with new made in Germany Monark nozzles and pop tested the set and boosted the pressures to 2100 psi by adding shims, to the high end of factory specs (135-145 bar). These nozzles make a much better looking spray pattern. it made a large difference in power at all RPMs but especially off the line 600-2500rpm, smoothness, less smoke, and quieter at idle. And I thought it was very quiet and powerful before this!

Here is my homemade pop tester made from parts I bought used on ebay (like a portapower), a 3000psi guage, an injector line for free from a junkyard, and a clear salsa jar it sprays into:
http://www.xyzworks.com/injectortest.jpg

Thats a really nice Porta Power setup you made. Could you give us more information? What size unit you used? Cost? Any other info that might help recreate one like it? Thanks in advance. Great job btw. Jim

I started a new thread about the pop tester here:
Easy homemade pop tester

The Bosios nozzles i bought were made in italy, NOT india..I double checked.
They are performing great after 9k..but a lot more money than these monarks,
at the time, i never heard of them. The italians are actually in the same league as the germans when it comes to machining--thats my industry, and I am not italian.

21,000 miles on monarks
 

Hello fellow grease monkeys. I wanted to give another update on the Monark nozzles installed in my 300d. I now have a little over 21,000 miles on the set and they still drive wonderfully. They seem to have smoothed out more and settled in, but no loss in performance. I am very pleased with them. I think one of the nicer things is that there is no pilot injection hole to clog up as on the bosios. Not saying that Bosio's are bad, ive read they have very good quality. I just like simple and basic, and these fit the bill. Anyone with questions, feel free to ask.

I just installed my Monark Nozzles
 

After installing and test-driving my 1991 350SD with new Monark nozzles I can tell you they are fantastic. I have had the car since it had 50,000 miles on it and now it has 105,000 miles and it has never run this well. I bought the cool pop tester from Mercedes Source and balanced the injectors myself with the provided shims.

There is no more smoke even with my foot to the floor, the idle is very smooth, and she has a lot more power. On the freeway at 85mph up a mountain pass (I64@Afton VA) just now I could have easily accelerated to 100.

I think that some of the lower-quality 100% biodiesel I used may have coked-up the old injectors and I doubt if the injectors were ever balanced as well as they are now.

My friends with MB diesels are neglecting their injectors. Some of them run B100, and some SVO. The manual I have says that with SVO you might need to clean your injectors every 12K miles.

Having ran both they're both high quality and would recommend each of them. Having said that i like monarch they're cheaper.

I like my Monarch nozzles and C Sean Watts is a great fellow to deal with.

Robert

How did the Manual say to clean the Spray Nozzles; with a chemical Purge or taking apart the Nozzles and Physical Cleaning?