What are you using in the sudsy water? Detergent, dish soap?

Liquid laundry and powder dishwasher soap.

I definitely get dirty water when cleaning/refreshing the oil, about 2-3 times a year. It's so damn easy to do I almost look forward to seeing the dirty water. I use a 1 qt sprayer with light oil used liberally, also on the inner cone.

If I lived in an area prone to frequent dusty conditions, I might use the MB setup rather than HAVING to clean the K&N excessively. Middle Atlantic states rarely get dusty due to the high humidity.

My choice of the K&N is for performance and fuel economy at high speed interstate cruising.
The additonal benefit of nixing the MB turbo air cleaner setup is icing on the cake.

The fact the filter remains clean is a good thing???

Post #2, although subtle, contains excellent advice.;)

That isn't opinion, its fact.

I want proof of damage
 

It's just obvious hearsay unless you have some first hand information to back up your statement above.

I have been using K&N filters for 25 years without a problem. Longer than you have been alive, eh?

I installed hundreds of them at dealerships, Porschasports, and now the shop where I work now. Fifteen Porsche engines in sand buggys all used K&N at the Baja 1000 as well as many other racers there. I don't remember seeing anything but K&N filters on the motorcycles. Foam blankets were used on the dustiest roads.

I have torn down some high mileage engines and have never seen the tell tale vertical scratches on the cylinder walls denoting hard particle injestion.

I've read several reports that say the K&N filters don't filter as well as others. In the real world that doesn't seem to mean squat.

Wash the elements out in three gallons of warm water with two tablesppons of Dawn detergent. It cuts grease well. Sun dry and oil with Marvel Mystery oil put in a spray bottle.

http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

http://home.stny.rr.com/jbplock/ISO5...s/image010.jpg
In the chart above it’s important to note the different test durations for each filter. The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction. In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons.

Then why do you bother using an air filter at all?

Not good enough
 

Then why do you bother using an air filter at all?[/QUOTE]

Read my post again.... slowly.

What don't you understand about "first hand information"?
I don't care about what you read somewhere or what your Aunt Ethyl once heard from the butcher. What have you personally seen?

MORE than good enough
 

Troll all you want and ignore the proven tests then. You're on your closed-minded own, nothing will crack such a thick skull.

Beyond the fact that K&N passes more dirt, it will have ZERO hp gain on the OM61x and OM60x engines. They are completely mechanical and will not gain power from increased airflow. The stock air filter setups for both the OM61x and OM60x flow very well and are not a restriction.

For those who require "first hand information", check out my page MENU#4a.

The K&N oil does "come-off" and contaminate the MAF element. Yes, it happend to me! Details in MENU#4a.

If you want some 'real-world' proof, please click the link (at the bottom of MENU#4a) to filter test done by a real-world person using his real-world car. If that doesn't convince you, then nothing will!

I understand "first hand information." It's often biased heavily by the desires of the observer, and completely unscientific. I think that holds here too.

Truer words have never been said.

Exactly; it is a good thing! But, the quote I was answering said that the K&N filter did not filter well and were no good (of course he is welcomed to his own opinion). I was just to relate there was nothing to indicat that mine was not working the way it is supposed to.

I did not mean to stir up things I just wanted to know if there was something else to was my air filter with and I believe I received the answers I wanted.
I bought the filter as I felt in the long run it would be more economical (don't care about performance much just want a good reliable car). I also noticed (I have a federal car) that the federal type air filter was not as available locally and it was difficult to identify exactly which filter to buy when I looked at some of the Parts sites. So we have a scientific test verses the one member real word observations of multiple vehicles including sand buggies. Then I have my own observation; I am not finding anything gritty in my air filter passed the filter.
What ever filter people want to use I wish them the best.

At the end of an internet article is this statement;

In the U.S. Chrysler markets factory-approved performance kits for some of its truck engines. The kit includes a K&N filter and the kit's use is covered under the factory warranty. Chrysler would not offer a kit such as that if the K&N Filter could not meet OE filter efficiency goals.

In Japan Nissan markets similar factory-approved performance kits for a couple of models that are offered only in the Japanese domestic markets. Like the Chrysler, kits, the Nissan kits include K&N filters.

Article is at - http://vettenet.org/knfilter.html

So I went searching for Chrysler performance kits
http://www.chrysler.com/en/owners/

Under Parts and Accessories, Category, Performance is this:
http://www.mopar.com/performance/street/index.html

Click Street, then Catalog
Click "Eight Cylinder Passenger Vehicle", then "Cold Air Intake System"
http://www.mopar.com/m_perf_subcatCheck.jsp?SubSubGrpID=51527&dummy9=1202063205142

Although not stated this sure looks like a pre-oiled, washable/reusable K&N filter with a MOPAR label.

I didn't waste any more of my time by looking up Nissan to check on their factory approved air filter systems, I'm sure theirs is the same.

Looks like CASE CLOSED as far as particulate filtering is concerned.

As far as performance, the K&N has shown to increase HP in dirt bikes, much less than turbocharged engines. Anyone who has not seen a substantial increase in performance and fuel mileage in a 617 turbo at high speed (75+), especially going uphill DOES NOT have a properly tuned engine.

There's no "seat of the pants" or "wishful thinking". It's a case of the speedometer being between 80-85 with a stock MB filter and 95-100 in a K&N on the identical hill. And about 2-3 more mpg. I consistanty get close to 30 mpg on my old 328Kmi motor on the highways.

As far as 616/617 NA motors are concerned, I'm guessing the K&N would NOT do anything for the performance and probably nothing for fuel mileage.

This is a factually incorrect statement.

This is a factually incorrect statement unless the stock MB filter was completely clogged.




This is a factually incorrect statement.