VW Diesel Hybrid coming!!! 69.9 mpg

[Jim B.]

Wow!

I don't know about the stop/start technology though, how that would work.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/02/vw-unveiling-an.html


Coming Soon from VW: A 69.9 MPG Diesel Hybrid
By Chuck Squatriglia February 28, 2008 | 10:04:10 AMCategories: Diesel, Geneva Motor Show, Hybrids

[DieselAddict]

It would work just like the gas hybrids we have now except it'll have a diesel engine. Basically the engine will stop at traffic lights and get restarted by the electric motor when it's time to go again. It's a pretty seamless process on the gas hybrids. I'm glad someone has finally decided to introduce diesel-electric capability in a passenger car. I think it'll be great.

[vstech]

on the diesel, they may opt to just leave it running, at idle, there is almost no fuel consumed. of course, they could easily start it with that 80 or so HP electric motor hanging off the back... engine would only start when the car is moving above like 35 or so, kinda like tow starting with onboard motor... don't forget, the newer diesels with DI start MUCH quicker than our old IDI ones do... plus they don't usually need a glow. heat element in the air intake usually does it.
I think I asked a similar question last year when the diesel hybrids were discussed.

[anghrist]

Very nice. Truly a step in the right direction. I'm not buying another car until it runs on electricity only, with an option for an onboard generator.

[DieselAddict]

Originally Posted by vstech

on the diesel, they may opt to just leave it running, at idle, there is almost no fuel consumed. of course, they could easily start it with that 80 or so HP electric motor hanging off the back... engine would only start when the car is moving above like 35 or so, kinda like tow starting with onboard motor... don't forget, the newer diesels with DI start MUCH quicker than our old IDI ones do... plus they don't usually need a glow. heat element in the air intake usually does it.
I think I asked a similar question last year when the diesel hybrids were discussed.

Diesel engines still consume considerable amounts of fuel when idling. Ever done a diesel purge? You are correct that the newer engines with DI usually don't need a glow, but I'm not aware of any heat element in the intake. They do have glow plugs which at least on the TDI become useful when starting the engine cold at 45F or below. Above that the air in a DI engine is warm enough to cause the fuel to ignite because unlike in an IDI engine there are no prechambers that soak up the heat.

[bob_98sr5]

i'd definitely consider buying this vehicle in a few years or similar diesel/battery cell car. i am not surprised to see VW taking the lead on this type of vehicle.

[compress ignite]

I know you've all seen this.
But, In case somebody missed it...

[DieselAddict]

Originally Posted by compress ignite

I know you've all seen this.
But, In case somebody missed it...

I sure missed that one. A C-class diesel would be very nice regardless of whether it's a hybrid or not. I'd probably just prefer the plain diesel.

[AdvisorGuy]

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Diesel engines still consume considerable amounts of fuel when idling. Ever done a diesel purge? You are correct that the newer engines with DI usually don't need a glow, but I'm not aware of any heat element in the intake. They do have glow plugs which at least on the TDI become useful when starting the engine cold at 45F or below. Above that the air in a DI engine is warm enough to cause the fuel to ignite because unlike in an IDI engine there are no prechambers that soak up the heat.

My car idles for about 40-50 minutes on 2 cans of Purge...

[vstech]

why electricity only? until environmentally sound power generation is a standard, and not a fringe source, having an electric car is a bad idea. except in areas where total hydro electric and solar/wind generation are main sources, coal and nuclear are gonna be heavily fuming up the earth. onboard generation is basically a hybrid... unless you are talking about the solar panels doing the work... perhaps hydrogen is the answer... I don't know how it's cracked out of water/air... possibly just as bad for the environment as gasoline/diesel... with all the deserts and flatlands for solar and wind generation, I don't see why we are still mainly generating our power with coal...

[anghrist]

Please understand that I'm engaging in friendly discussion of this topic. My opinions are my own, and I'm not trying to convert people. I simply have a standard that I feel must be met, for me, not for everyone.

Originally Posted by vstech

why electricity only?

Efficiency.

Here's a post from one of the EV forums I frequent.

Isn't it ridiculous to state that a gallon of gasoline (6.3 lbs) produces 20 lbs of carbon dioxide?

Visit: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/co2.shtml for an explanation.

In fact, refining one gallon of gasoline is on average 37.5% efficient.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/UK-English...Ref_Fawley.asp

That means it takes 2.67 gallons of burned oil to produce one gallon of refined gasoline.

Crude oil contains 85% carbon by weight.
http://cdiac.ornl.gov/pns/convert.html

The weight of crude oil is 6.5 lbs / gallon.
http://www.eppo.go.th/ref/UNIT-OIL.html

Using the same math from fueleconomy.gov:

6.5 lbs/gal x 2.67 gals = 17.35 lbs

17.35 lbs x .85% C = 14.75 lbs C

14.75 lbs C x 3.7 (44/12) = 54.58 lbs CO2!

That's 54.58 lbs CO2 from refining gasoline.

PLUS

The 20 lbs CO2 from combustion of the refined gasoline in a car.

That's 74.58 lbs CO2 from one gallon of gas.

Originally Posted by vstech

..except in areas where total hydro electric and solar/wind generation are main sources, coal and nuclear are gonna be heavily fuming up the earth.

Admittedly, I am advantaged in that area, here in the High Desert of Southern California.

Originally Posted by vstech

...onboard generation is basically a hybrid... unless you are talking about the solar panels doing the work...

Right again, I want both solar panels and an onboard generator (although small). Present lack of a supportive infrastructure dictates that I must generate power somehow for extended range.

Originally Posted by vstech

...perhaps hydrogen is the answer... I don't know how it's cracked out of water/air... possibly just as bad for the environment as gasoline/diesel...

Unfortunately, without the solar/wind/geothermal power source to drive the hydrogen generation facilities, the energy efficiency of extracting hydrogen from water is very inefficient.

Originally Posted by vstech

...with all the deserts and flatlands for solar and wind generation, I don't see why we are still mainly generating our power with coal...

Because we still have the coal fired plants and don't have to build new ones plus we have a domestic coal supply. But, yes, it is still dirty.

Every person must make their own personal decisions; however, in the USA, the government is elected to make the best decisions for us all. The need to listen to the scientists and engineers more often.

[t walgamuth]

Unfortunately the politicians are too..........

political!

We are building ethanol plants in areas where the political support for the current government is strong.

It is boosting the cost of corn and soy beans which is increasing the cost of our food drastically. Its payback time baybeeeeee!

I heard yesterday at lunch that soy beans are selling for $14 a bushel. I said...."wait they arent making ethanol from soy beans are they?....No they are planting more corn and less soy beans and that is driving up the price of soy beans!"

I am despaired to imagine that politicians will ever much (or very many of them) be influenced by science!

Tom W

So, 69.9 imperial MPG is 58.2 US MPG. Still better than a Prius but its also still a parallel hybrid.

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I am despaired to imagine that politicians will ever much (or very many of them) be influenced by science!

Tom W

Not just politicians I'm afraid. I've often wondered why the hell the entire southwest is not a solar power generator facility. If every roof in Phoenix, Tucson, LA, San Diego, Dallas, Albuquerque, and surrounding areas for starters were solar panels would that not provide a pretty damm huge boost to the national grid at the cost of no pollution whatever?

- Peter.

[vstech]

oh, and on the vw... 69 eh? do the seats fold down?...