Add air conditioning to W123? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TheDon · #16 01-31-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

It has a revolving screen/mat that is soaked with water (from an included pan); air from forward motion goes through the mat and evaporates the water, which takes energy out of the air, thus cooling it. Works great in desert heat and 5% humidity. Works less well as the humidity rises, hence the nickname "swamp cooler." Most such coolers require the user to pull a lever or otherwise move something to revolve the screen/mat and keep it soaked with water.

Obviously, the water needs to be replenished frequently – most such things are good for only an hour or two before the reservoir runs dry. OTOH, they are inexpensive and use no power from the car except for a slight reduction in fuel economy due to air resistance. I doubt that they are even made anymore due to the prevalence of a/c in most cars. The one in the photo looks like it dates from the 1950s. I may have owned one a few decades ago.

Jeremy

swamp coolers just look cool hanging off an old VW

http://www.google.com/search?q=swamp+coolers&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=863

hawthorne90250 · #17 01-31-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oracle12345

don't see one for Mercedes

They say they have them.

Add air conditioning to W123?-ice-air.jpeg

Who designed their website? i can hardly read the text.

TheDon · #18 01-31-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawthorne90250

They say they have them.Attachment 63833

how does an AC system increase performance, effciency, and power?

nickofoxford · #19 01-31-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

It has a revolving screen/mat that is soaked with water (from an included pan); air from forward motion goes through the mat and evaporates the water, which takes energy out of the air, thus cooling it. Works great in desert heat and 5% humidity. Works less well as the humidity rises, hence the nickname "swamp cooler." Most such coolers require the user to pull a lever or otherwise move something to revolve the screen/mat and keep it soaked with water.

Obviously, the water needs to be replenished frequently – most such things are good for only an hour or two before the reservoir runs dry. OTOH, they are inexpensive and use no power from the car except for a slight reduction in fuel economy due to air resistance. I doubt that they are even made anymore due to the prevalence of a/c in most cars. The one in the photo looks like it dates from the 1950s. I may have owned one a few decades ago.

Jeremy

Wow, that's pretty neat. I never knew that evaporative cooling was used in cars. I saw something like that in a junkyard a while back and I knew I should of grabbed it.. Just didn't know what the thing did.

TheDon · #20 01-31-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickofoxford

Wow, that's pretty neat. I never knew that evaporative cooling was used in cars. I saw something like that in a junkyard a while back and I knew I should of grabbed it.. Just didn't know what the thing did.

those swamp coolers are wort something. Especially the thermador brand.

they really didnt work that great unless you were in an area with low humidity. in FL they are useless.

KAdams4458 · #21 01-31-2009, 10:47 PM

I second the parallel flow condenser. Being right up in front of the car, condensers suffer all kinds of issues from bugs, rocks, etc. There is no sense in a stock used one, unless it really looks fresh, and even then I still wouldn't install anything but a parallel flow universal replacement.

While we're on the subject of retrofitting AC, why not also take the time to improve on the design. No matter what compressor the W123's came with, they suck. The Yorks, while being long-lived and fully rebuildable, are massive and suck engine power like crazy, plus they will only fit a non-turbo car. The Harrison R4 compressor is a pile of crap no matter how many times it has been revised since it was created, and honestly, it would be insane to buy a used compressor, so why not swap a Sanden in for the R4?

I subscribe to the theory that the devil you know is better than the one you don't. Swapping out cars because of a lack of AC? You won't see me do it. The entire original AC system in my '77 300D is afflicted with "black death." Eventually, I'll replace every soft line, upgrade the condenser, and install a factory fresh modern compressor under the hood.

Changing from ACC to manual climate control may, or may not happen for my car... It all depends on whether or not I come across an AC equipped manual control donor car before I'm done with everything else I have to do. I could easily drop hundreds on a digital replacement for the Evil Servo of Doom and continue to have auto climate controls. One option is cheap and hard, the other is expensive and easy, but that's my position.

The original poster lacks AC controls completely, so they will have no way out of pulling a dash and doing a lot of work in order to even gain control over an AC system - All that, and they get to install the underhood components, too. Not an enviable position at all, but if the car is special to them, and they can justify the expense and effort, I say go for it!

carlivar · #22 02-01-2009, 12:09 AM

Well, reason I asked is I was looking at a 300D import that I really liked, but it has no A/C. Plus black interior. In Southern California.

I might be inclined to give it a shot adding A/C, but the car is already priced quite high. So it's really not worth it.

t walgamuth · #23 02-01-2009, 07:52 AM

I did an ac installation many years ago on my 84 280e. I bought the parts used from Aurora in Washington or Oregon (one of those nw states) and paid my indie to install it. I think I paid about 300 for the parts and he charged my 1200 to do the work (I am pretty sure he did not make his rate on it).

The evap unit under the dash needs to be changed as a part of it....the blower is different too. And unlikely as it may seem, the dash controls are different even though they look the same, (IIRC).

Its a lot of work.

The euros often lack the ac.

Mark DiSilvestro · #24 02-01-2009, 10:04 AM

Having installed some AC systems in older cars for which no AC kits were availible, I have some questions and suggestions. First, does anyone make a Sanden replacement compressor kit for the Delco R4 compressor?
I've seen kits for the older Fintails and W108s with the York, but nothing for the R4. Second, if you're going to convert to R134, the parallel condenser is a great idea in theory. but the condenser and lines need to be custom made or fitted to work in a W123. It's not a simple bolt-on upgrade, and not neccessary if you can run R12.

As for the rough & noisy Yorks, it may not be neccessary to spin them as fast as they do in our Benzes. I had a customer many years ago with a Sears hang-on AC in a '67 Mustang, and a bad clutch on his York compressr. e also commented that his car always ran hot with the AC on.
So I 'de-rated' his AC by installing a replacement clutch with a larger pulley to drive the York about 20% slower, for a reduction in load on the engine and cooling system.
AC cooling was also a bit reduced but still acceptable.

Around this time I adapted a Sears hang-on AC for a friends 1976 4-cylinder Mazda Miser wagon. The Mazda already had a vacant factory pulley mounted on the crankshaft, but it was sized for the Sankyo (Sanden) compressor that would have been installed by a Mazda dealer. It probably was driving the Sears-York at least 30% slower than normal. AC performance was a bit weak at stoplights, but otherwise it cooled OK, and the load on the 4-cylinder engine and cooling system was barely noticeable.

Of course both these York-driven ACs were using R12.

Happy Motoring, Mark

KAdams4458 · #25 02-01-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark DiSilvestro

... First, does anyone make a Sanden replacement compressor kit for the Delco R4 compressor?
I've seen kits for the older Fintails and W108s with the York, but nothing for the R4. Second, if you're going to convert to R134, the parallel condenser is a great idea in theory. but the condenser and lines need to be custom made or fitted to work in a W123. It's not a simple bolt-on upgrade, and not neccessary if you can run R12.

...

I know I've seen a sanden "kit" for replacing the York compressors on NA OM617 and OM616 motors consisting of custom brackets - Hardly a kit, but it did solve the issue of mounting the compressor. As far as a kit for replacing an R4 with a Sanden? I've never seen one. Of course, I can weld, so fabricating a bracket is something that I could do. With some old original lines and brackets, I could easily create a way to mount just about any compressor on one of these cars.

As far as R-12 is concerned, let it be known that I am all for R-12 when the system was designed and built for it. In fact, I'm licensed to service mobile AC systems, and do in fact fill them with R-12 when the system calls for it, such as the system in my Saturn. I even have several cans of the stuff rat-holed for future use. Once it gets to the point that an entire AC system needs to be reworked or installed, well, the appeal of R-12 is gone. If I build a system from scratch, I'll build it to run on R-134a and be done with it. R-12 is getting too expensive and too hard to find to be building complete new systems from scratch for it.

... At least, that's how I look at it.

hawthorne90250 · #26 02-01-2009, 11:42 AM

Anyone know if this R4 to Sanden will work on our cars?
http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/gm-r-4-to-sanden-conversion-bracket-355.php

MBNRA · #27 02-01-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAdams4458

I know I've seen a sanden "kit" for replacing the York compressors on NA OM617 and OM616 motors consisting of custom brackets - Hardly a kit, but it did solve the issue of mounting the compressor. As far as a kit for replacing an R4 with a Sanden? I've never seen one. Of course, I can weld, so fabricating a bracket is something that I could do. With some old original lines and brackets, I could easily create a way to mount just about any compressor on one of these cars.

As far as R-12 is concerned, let it be known that I am all for R-12 when the system was designed and built for it. In fact, I'm licensed to service mobile AC systems, and do in fact fill them with R-12 when the system calls for it, such as the system in my Saturn. I even have several cans of the stuff rat-holed for future use. Once it gets to the point that an entire AC system needs to be reworked or installed, well, the appeal of R-12 is gone. If I build a system from scratch, I'll build it to run on R-134a and be done with it. R-12 is getting too expensive and too hard to find to be building complete new systems from scratch for it.

... At least, that's how I look at it.

Ok, got my flame suit on here. I've been recently introduced to Envirosafe Refrigerants by another member here in Arizona and it works great!! A retrofit will be necessary just like the R134 conversion, but Envirosafe uses about 1/3rd the energy of R12 and close to half of what it takes for R134! My dash outlet temps are 44*F in summer Phoenix's famous desert heat of 115*F or higher and without dumping too much heat in the engine compartment!

Now I realise that not all States will accept Envirosafe as a legal refrigerant, but quite a few now have relaxed their laws to let the market decide now that this has become a fuel saving measure and Arizona is one of them. Only Wisconsin outright restricts the importation of ANY Envirosafe into the state. In Yuma Arizona, Envirosafe is very popular because their Desert Temps can get to 130*F and at that temp, R134 will blow the head off of the older Compressors meant for R12 and Envirosafe will not! In fact, now our border patrol is using it in their vehicles and in mobile cooling units to keep the border patrol from burning up!

Also, there is a direct replacement compressor made to replace the R4 made by Mapco that uses your mounting backets, electrical connections and original refrigerant lines to the compressor! At a reasonable price too!

t walgamuth · #28 02-01-2009, 12:25 PM

Pardon my scepticism but 44 degrees faranheit seems impossible.

KAdams4458 · #29 02-01-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBNRA

Ok, got my flame suit on here. I've been recently introduced to Envirosafe Refrigerants by another member here in Arizona and it works great!! A retrofit will be necessary just like the R134 conversion, but Envirosafe uses about 1/3rd the energy of R12 and close to half of what it takes for R134! My dash outlet temps are 44*F in summer Phoenix's famous desert heat of 115*F or higher and without dumping too much heat in the engine compartment!

Now I realise that not all States will accept Envirosafe as a legal refrigerant, but quite a few now have relaxed their laws to let the market decide now that this has become a fuel saving measure and Arizona is one of them. Only Wisconsin outright restricts the importation of ANY Envirosafe into the state. In Yuma Arizona, Envirosafe is very popular because their Desert Temps can get to 130*F and at that temp, R134 will blow the head off of the older Compressors meant for R12 and Envirosafe will not! In fact, now our border patrol is using it in their vehicles and in mobile cooling units to keep the border patrol from burning up!

Also, there is a direct replacement compressor made to replace the R4 made by Mapco that uses your mounting backets, electrical connections and original refrigerant lines to the compressor! At a reasonable price too!

I won't flame you. The stuff is a hydrocarbon, and for some reason or another, the EPA thinks it is evil. Why, I cannot say. I only know one thing - as a 609 certification holder, I am banned from using it in a system I am servicing, and for that matter, am also banned from servicing a system that has been filled with it.

My hands are tied, as I really can't afford the kinds of fines the EPA likes to slap on people, and I really, really don't ever want to go to prison.

MBNRA · #30 02-01-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Pardon my scepticism but 44 degrees faranheit seems impossible.

Oops, I meant 48*F! At that point my freeze up switch cuts out and cycles the AC pump off and I hardle notice my engine idle slowing when it kicks on. Dash vent temps are at 55*F to 57*F at idle and down to 48*F driving on highway!

Believe me, I couldn't be more pleased! New Compressor as well. 4 Seasons makes a replacement for the GM R4 for a reasonable price and it works great with Envirosafe 12.