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-   Diesel Discussion (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/)
-   -   Oil Filter Change Interval w/Long Drain Intervals (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/254144-oil-filter-change-interval-w-long-drain-intervals.html)

rocketboy52 06-08-2009 11:07 PM
Does anyone have clear oil after 5k of diesel time? I'm just curious if you flushed and cleaned your engine really well, and then kept your oil changes up if one would be able to clean out the oil systems and keep clean oil for 5k or more. Any opinions, or will it always be black as ink by merit of being diesel?

compress ignite 06-09-2009 12:22 AM
Too Many other worries
 
Even if you were to install some sort of device that allowed you to drain the
Oil Cooler and Lines at oil change...Diesel oil is Always going to contain MORE
Soot and other combustion byproducts due to the High Compression,Etc.

A separate Bypass type oil filter will not even make a dent in the "Blackness".

Crazy Man that I am,I run Synthetic(High Zinc or additive) and change the Oil
and Filter EVERY 3000 miles.[Reasoning:Anything other than clean lube acts as a "Grit-like" Non-Approved Friction Modifier (To the Detriment of Longevity) ]

Ask Yourself...
1.'Just how HOT does the Turbocharger get the Lube Oil when you're Blissfully romping around at WOT ?
2.What "Kills" Lube Oil additives...(HEAT?)

bustedbenz 06-09-2009 12:54 AM
My standard formula is Rotella 15W40 dino every 5K miles with a new filter and tire rotation at the same time.

I did run ONE batch of Rotella synthetic for a full 10K over this past winter to ease cold starts. Thought about changing the filter at 5K but decided to just let it go and watch for trouble. Never saw any. Back to dino for the summer; I've read all the miracle cure stories but my engine seems much happier with the standard thicker oil in it. Not to mention how fast I was having to add the thinner synthetic as make-up quarts to compensate for how much faster it can leak out than the thicker stuff.

If I were in the habit of running 10K synthetic oil cycles on a routine basis, I'd be very tempted to change the filter out at 5K anyway (or whatever halfway through my extended cycle was) just for the simple reason that synthetic oil doesn't stay any cleaner than dino oil across the same number of miles, it's just designed to handle being dirty better. Filters are so cheap compared to the cost of the oil anyway that I think it'd be cheap psychological insurance to change them even if there's no technical benefit.

That said, I've run 10K on the same filter before and can't produce any hard evidence of noticeable wear/damage OR the lack thereof beyond what I am more accustomed to seeing. I think over the life of the engine, the damage you'd do by running filters 10K, IF ANY, would be negligible compared to the cumulative effect of that many miles of wear that couldn't have been prevented even with magic pixie oil.

Brian Carlton 06-09-2009 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth (Post 2218033)
Changing the filter more often than the filter seems like a false economy to me.
..........seems impossible to me..........;)

bigblockchev 06-09-2009 01:13 AM
Long Oil change intervals???
 
I am actually surprised that many folks are even considering long oil change intervals. I change my oil in all my vehicles at 5000Km (3000Mi) intervals and consider that to be as far as I would want to go. I sure wouldn't want to buy a pristine Benz which had been babied with 10 -15 K oil changes. Frequent Oil changes are your best mechanic and go a long way to making your car go a long way. At $50-75 per change with filter what are we really looking at saving. Just my opinion. Cheers Dan

bustedbenz 06-09-2009 01:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockchev (Post 2219935)
I am actually surprised that many folks are even considering long oil change intervals. I change my oil in all my vehicles at 5000Km (3000Mi) intervals and consider that to be as far as I would want to go. I sure wouldn't want to buy a pristine Benz which had been babied with 10 -15 K oil changes. Frequent Oil changes are your best mechanic and go a long way to making your car go a long way. At $50-75 per change with filter what are we really looking at saving. Just my opinion. Cheers Dan
Not saving anything, but my factory owners manual recommends an interval of 5,000 miles. And I figure if 1986 oil was good for 5K in this engine, as per the factory, then 2009 oil is bound to be good for at least that.

Bio300TDTdriver 06-09-2009 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockchev (Post 2219935)
I am actually surprised that many folks are even considering long oil change intervals. I change my oil in all my vehicles at 5000Km (3000Mi) intervals and consider that to be as far as I would want to go. I sure wouldn't want to buy a pristine Benz which had been babied with 10 -15 K oil changes. Frequent Oil changes are your best mechanic and go a long way to making your car go a long way. At $50-75 per change with filter what are we really looking at saving. Just my opinion. Cheers Dan
So you probably don't believe in the science of Oil Analysis. :rolleyes:

DeliveryValve 06-09-2009 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockchev (Post 2219935)
....I sure wouldn't want to buy a pristine Benz which had been babied with 10 -15 K oil changes. Frequent Oil changes are your best mechanic and go a long way to making your car go a long way. At $50-75 per change with filter what are we really looking at saving. Just my opinion. Cheers Dan
It depends on the vehicle. A 617 Benz yes, 10,000 plus miles is too far. If your talking about a pristine 2005-2007 CDI/BlueTEC, a 13,000 mile oil change intervals are recommended or 2008-2009 all MBs have a 10,000 mile oil change interval. In fact the recommended MB 229.51 spec oil for CDI/BlueTEC diesels is formulated with a Long Life additive package in that if you change it much sooner, you actually will cause your engine to wear sooner.



.

bigblockchev 06-09-2009 06:33 PM
Oil changes
 
I work for a large hospital as a maintenance supervisor I have under my purview 6.5 MW of diesel generators for which I am responsible for the maintenance. I actually do oil analysis on a regular basis for these units. The cost of oil analysis is in the neighborhood of $25 a pop , when you are looking at engines that have a 200L oil capacity each then it makes sense to spend a few bucks to determine the condition. I use Shell rotella 15-40 in my Benz and other vehicles. The cost of the oil is slightly more than the cost of the testing. So yes I will continue to change my oil at 3000 Mi intervals. I do believe in the science of oil analysis but the economy is just not that conclusive. Cheers Dan

shertex 06-09-2009 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockchev (Post 2220507)
I work for a large hospital as a maintenance supervisor I have under my purview 6.5 MW of diesel generators for which I am responsible for the maintenance. I actually do oil analysis on a regular basis for these units. The cost of oil analysis is in the neighborhood of $25 a pop , when you are looking at engines that have a 200L oil capacity each then it makes sense to spend a few bucks to determine the condition. I use Shell rotella 15-40 in my Benz and other vehicles. The cost of the oil is slightly more than the cost of the testing. So yes I will continue to change my oil at 3000 Mi intervals. I do believe in the science of oil analysis but the economy is just not that conclusive. Cheers Dan
I did one oil analysis after the oil had been in there 7500 miles. The soot load was at 0.8% and all the other trace elements were WELL below acceptable levels. And, according to the folks at AVLube, the additive package of Delvac 1 is going to last a long, long time. So, based on that one analysis, there's really no reason I couldn't go 15,000 miles or more. (Of course, I'll probably chicken out and change it at 10,000). As a one shot deal, the analysis was well worth it. From what I understand, the value of ongoing analysis is NOT to confirm over and over again the change interval, but rather to detect new problems that are emerging, and early enough to do something about them.

Diesel911 06-09-2009 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bustedbenz (Post 2219911)
My standard formula is Rotella 15W40 dino every 5K miles with a new filter and tire rotation at the same time.

I did run ONE batch of Rotella synthetic for a full 10K over this past winter to ease cold starts. Thought about changing the filter at 5K but decided to just let it go and watch for trouble. Never saw any. Back to dino for the summer; I've read all the miracle cure stories but my engine seems much happier with the standard thicker oil in it. Not to mention how fast I was having to add the thinner synthetic as make-up quarts to compensate for how much faster it can leak out than the thicker stuff.

If I were in the habit of running 10K synthetic oil cycles on a routine basis, I'd be very tempted to change the filter out at 5K anyway (or whatever halfway through my extended cycle was) just for the simple reason that synthetic oil doesn't stay any cleaner than dino oil across the same number of miles, it's just designed to handle being dirty better. Filters are so cheap compared to the cost of the oil anyway that I think it'd be cheap psychological insurance to change them even if there's no technical benefit.

That said, I've run 10K on the same filter before and can't produce any hard evidence of noticeable wear/damage OR the lack thereof beyond what I am more accustomed to seeing. I think over the life of the engine, the damage you'd do by running filters 10K, IF ANY, would be negligible compared to the cumulative effect of that many miles of wear that couldn't have been prevented even with magic pixie oil.
I suppose that the cotton in the By-pass section of a new filter might absorb somethina extra till saturated on my Engine.
(Speaking of the Full Flow section of the Oil Filter.) However, after that a old used filter actually filters out finer particles than a new Filter does. So an old Filter will filter better up to the point where it becomes plugged up enough to restrict the flow and have an effect on the Oil Pressure.

Diesel911 06-09-2009 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockchev (Post 2220507)
I work for a large hospital as a maintenance supervisor I have under my purview 6.5 MW of diesel generators for which I am responsible for the maintenance. I actually do oil analysis on a regular basis for these units. The cost of oil analysis is in the neighborhood of $25 a pop , when you are looking at engines that have a 200L oil capacity each then it makes sense to spend a few bucks to determine the condition. I use Shell rotella 15-40 in my Benz and other vehicles. The cost of the oil is slightly more than the cost of the testing. So yes I will continue to change my oil at 3000 Mi intervals. I do believe in the science of oil analysis but the economy is just not that conclusive. Cheers Dan
Big Trucking Companies like Ryder were using Oil Analysis before this extended Oil Change idea became popular.
They were doing it to detect Bearing failures and Coolant leaks (most often from the Oil Coolers) so they could catch them before the very expensive Engines were destroyed. It is an accepted cost of doing business that has proven save money for the reasons stated alone.

The Extend Oil Drain idea had to be proved and it has been.
For commercial purposes it means that they buy less Oil and Filters, have to despose of less oil and used Oil Filters (the. do not get the free Oil dump at the local Autozone they have to pay), they have less records to keep concerning where they got rid of the old Oil and Filters, and it saves the labor charge of doing unecessary Oil changes and the vehicle stays on the road making money insted of in the shop havening an Oil Change.


So for us common folks with free labor, free old oil and filter disopsal, no waste disposel records to keep track of for the EPA and the cost of the Oil Analysis compared to just changing the Oil makes good sense.

argus445 06-09-2009 07:26 PM
what would excessive soot loading numbers are we going by? delvac advocates 100K in trucks that's 5x the normal so i'm just curious what levels of soot loading is the limit on 617 or who come up with it?

shertex 06-09-2009 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by argus445 (Post 2220572)
what would excessive soot loading numbers are we going by? delvac advocates 100K in trucks that's 5x the normal so i'm just curious what levels of soot loading is the limit on 617 or who come up with it?
MB gives 2% as the limit (I guess trying to accommodate the wide variety of different oils that people will use). But Mobil Delvac 1 (or Turbo Diesel Truck) can handle 4%.

shingleback 06-10-2009 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblockchev (Post 2220507)
I work for a large hospital as a maintenance supervisor . Cheers Dan
Which one?

Quote:
Big Trucking Companies like Ryder were using Oil Analysis before this extended Oil Change idea became popular.
We did it for the marine engines in the navy too, but with the cars I would rather spend the money on fresh oil and filter..just makes economical sense to me.


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