Accidentally raced with a C230 - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

2.5-10 · #31 08-14-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Fundamental misunderstandings of horsepower and torque.

Although you lose the "torque sweet spot", so does every other vehicle. The torque is falling while the horsepower is still climbing. The best acceleration over a distance is run at peak horsepower............taking advantage of the gearing.

If you held a diesel (or a gasser) at the torque peak, your ET would be considerably slower than if you held it at the horsepower peak. The point you fail to grasp is the fact that you shift into higher gears to keep the engine at the torque peak, and that action drops the torque to the pavement at every shift.

Your horsepower peak is probably at 4500 rpm. Winding it to 4500 rpm will always result in a lower ET than holding it at the torque peak of 2500 rpm.

I am saying with my 602 since it has 1.5x as much tq as it does hp and its available for a much longer time, the car is faster when i keep it in the torque, in a gasser, this is much less important, and you may as well wind it out since they seem to have more tq on the top end as well as hp.

I know that I am only making like 90hp at that range, but I am making close to 170lb/ft and torque is what really helps on the low end.... probably why my diesel is not a highway racer even though it makes plenty of power all the way to redline.

pawoSD · #32 08-14-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

There are so many situations where that image is a perfect fit....

Brandon_SLC · #33 08-16-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavka007

C230 Kompressor goes from 0 to 60 in under 8 sec (7.6), so perhaps the driver on the C230 was not aware that you are racing him... just my 2 cent.

Wow! That's 1/10th sec faster than a Camry Hybrid, a very quick car, indeed!!!

Pavka007 · #34 08-16-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon_SLC

Wow! That's 1/10th sec faster than a Camry Hybrid, a very quick car, indeed!!!

No..not a very quick car but quicker than 300SD for sure

pawoSD · #35 08-16-2009, 01:32 PM

I consider my 300E pretty fast....it can hit 60 4-5 seconds faster than my 300SD can.....and 100+ WAY faster.

A C230 Kompressor could beat my 300E, so it could easily take a 300SD. It'd be more neck and neck with the 300E though, nearly identical power output....but the C class is probably lighter/more aerodynamic.

babymog · #36 08-16-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Fundamental misunderstandings of horsepower and torque.

Although you lose the "torque sweet spot", so does every other vehicle. The torque is falling while the horsepower is still climbing. The best acceleration over a distance is run at peak horsepower............taking advantage of the gearing.

If you held a diesel (or a gasser) at the torque peak, your ET would be considerably slower than if you held it at the horsepower peak. The point you fail to grasp is the fact that you shift into higher gears to keep the engine at the torque peak, and that action drops the torque to the pavement at every shift.

Your horsepower peak is probably at 4500 rpm. Winding it to 4500 rpm will always result in a lower ET than holding it at the torque peak of 2500 rpm.

It's so rare, and SO NICE to see that someone else actually understands torque, horsepower, acceleration, and work. Thanks Brian.

BodhiBenz1987 · #37 08-16-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

I do.......I do........I'm just going to ignore the horsepower figures and believe you..........those are just for engineers..........they don't understand the real world like we do.

Well, there is something to be said for driver competence. Although that shouldn't have much effect with two automatic transmissions. But someone who can't drive stick can make a powerful car pretty clumsy.

It is also possible that the 230 wasn't running optimally for one reason or another, maybe needed a tuneup.

Most likely it wasn't trying to race. I have to admit I occasionally like to humor people who rev their engines at me or are obviously trying to get into it with me on the highway. The 300D can keep up OK with some cars, but only to a point ... it doesn't usually embarrass itself entirely.

Now, I've also had people rev their engines at my 240D. I think some not very bright people might think it's powerful because it's loud (exhaust is shot). I just watch them torch their way to the next red light as a I slowly creep off the line, disappearing from their rearview mirror.

Brian Carlton · #38 08-16-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.5-10

I am saying with my 602 since it has 1.5x as much tq as it does hp and its available for a much longer time, the car is faster when i keep it in the torque, in a gasser, this is much less important, and you may as well wind it out since they seem to have more tq on the top end as well as hp.

I know exactly what you are saying...........you've said it twice now.

Unfortunately, it was originally, and will remain a factually incorrect statement because you continue to have a fundamental misunderstanding of horsepower and torque.

TylerH860 · #39 08-17-2009, 01:44 AM

I raced and absolutely destroyed Don in his 300SDL yesterday. Forget that I had a 10MPH rolling start and caught him by surprise.

Hip001 · #40 08-17-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerH860

I raced and absolutely destroyed Don in his 300SDL yesterday. Forget that I had a 10MPH rolling start and caught him by surprise.

Ohhhhhh SNAP!

Love that picture Tyler!

This topic is too funny but as it went on all I heard was BLAH BLAH BLAH.......

It was a good story, period! That what it is "A Story" it may be true or embelished for entertainment value. Either way we are still talking about it.

I'm sure if we were to get the lab coats out and stop watches, computers, and had a closed course test with all of us engineering types we could get "Hard Data" fact of the matter is there is a hunderd different factors on why this is right or wrong.

Example:
My 1100cc Yamaha VMax for years one of the worlds fastest production bikes in the 1/4mile could be out run by 250cc Vespa IF.....................
I was hungover and pulled up to the stoplight in 4th gear, running on 2cyl with the other 2 having fouled plugs, faulty clutch not alowing me to downshift and the throttle cable kinked only allowing 2000peak rpm.
But on the other hand if the bike was completely tweeked to run perfect, I could of watched the light turn green finished my coffee, put my gloves and helmet on started the bike and still flew buy him as a BLURRY SCREAM before he got to 1/4 mile.
Not that I would ever endorse exceeding the posted speed limits!!!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

babymog · #41 08-17-2009, 02:00 PM

Which year Vespa, let's stick to the facts here.

Hatterasguy · #42 08-17-2009, 06:04 PM

I raced an SL55 AMG today with my truck, but I'm pretty sure they didn't know a race was happening. Suckers!

Sure it has a 500hp blown V8, and sure it has enough torque to make the pavement warp on hot days as those massive Michelin Pilot Sport tires struggle to plant all that power. But I just want my truck to be faster so it is!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO-OyG3oc2g