Shock/Strut Recommendations
 

I have a 1993 W124 300D that wallows a little much for my taste.
The previous owner installed new shocks but they are cheap and they have about 40K miles on them by now.

I am considering Bilstein Heavy Duty's all the way around but I have considered another option.

Do the Bilstein Sports lower the suspension any?

I ask because I carry anywhere from 40-80 pounds of stuff for work in my car and often it's in the trunk or the back seat.

I am considering putting the HD's up front and some Sports in the rear.

Any ideas on this?

I want to avoid nose lift because I suspect that this at least partly to blame for my relatively poor fuel mileage (26-28mpg in almost all highway driving).

In my W123 300D I got almost three miles a gallon better and faster acceleration when I removed all the tools from the trunk right before I sold it. I had Bilstein HDs all the way around on that one but it still didn't keep the rear from sagging, raising the nose.

Sports are valved pretty differently than the HD, I wouldn't mix the two... Sports are also quite a bit firmer than the HDs. I have Sports on my '83 745i

Rear sag is mostly the diff mount and worn out springs.

The shocks will not have a significant affect on the ride height. Similar gas pressure, it's only there to keep the oil from boiling, different valving/damping.

The sports are different length for a different height suspension. The Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks are ideal for your car. They will not only give the car the correct valving and dampening characteristics, but will last a LONG time. Stick with the Heavy Duty front and rear.

The W124 has a complex arrangement of struts comprising the rear suspension and 4 big bushings attaching the subframe to the car. At 220K miles, your car likely needs some new bushings or struts. The diff is not an active part of the suspension as it is in the 123 and 126 but there are mounting bushings that wear as well.

Sixto
87 300D

x2. Bilstein offers "heavy duty" and "sport" as the options for the W124. Your wallowing may very well be due to ancient wear parts (bushings, etc.) needing replacement. The five-link W124 rear suspension is excellent but the bits and pieces do need to be kept in good repair, including the three rubber mounts for the differential. Jack the rear wheels off the ground; any link that you can twist with your hands probably needs to be replaced.

With the suspension in good repair, the load you have won't matter at all. BTW, much/all of the repairs can be done yourself -- replacing links, replacing the shocks is easy, replacing the links on the end of the anti-sway bar is trivial.

Jeremy

Would anybody recommend replacing all four springs as well?

As far as the rear suspension bushings go, I am getting some serious squeaking from back there.

When I bought the car the transmission was shifting very harshly(vacuum leak in the emission control system since bypassed) and the right rear shock lower mounting bolt was loose so it clunked very harshly with the tranny shifting the way it was.

Because I don't know how long the shock was in this condition and because I know that the PO also drove this car on dirt ranch roads I am pretty sure that this shock, at least, is toast.

The squeaking comes from both sides of the rear suspension and I also get them occasionally from the front.

I know that the PO replaced the tie rods up front but I haven't checked the bushings there or the rear.

The strut mounts up front are also cracked pretty bad and deeply. They're basically shot.

Do they make a urethane strut mount for this car? If so, would you recommend that over a rubber one?

I have also heard that there is a rubber pad between the top of the springs and the body on the rear.

If so, do they make a urethane version of that? Recommended?

I haven't really checked out any bushings so I will definitely have to do that before I proceed.

I haven't actually measured the gap between the wheel center and the fenders on the rear so I don't know for sure that they are sagging but they appear as though they might be. I also don't know for sure what that measurement is supposed to be.

Another option I have considered is buying some Sportline springs.

If I did that, does anybody know what size/model number I should get for front and rear?

Also, what would be the appropriate strut/shock for them?

Would the HDs work or should I go with the Sports?

Again, the sport shocks are simply shorter to work with the shorter springs of the sport suspension. What you do NOT want is a mix of sport shocks with standard springs or sport springs with standard shocks.

If you are going to change to the sportline springs, you need to also change the sway bars. You are opening up a pandora's box.

I went through several iterations of spring/shock/swaybar combinations and I finally ended up with what I consider the optimum. Very few people will agree with me and that's fine. Everyone is free to set up their car as they like.

I FINALLY went to stock springs, Bilstein Heavy Duty at both ends, stock front sway bar and 500E rear sway bar. With the extra heavy rear sway bar, a good bit of the understeer is taken out. The car goes where I steer it.

REGARDLESS of shock/spring/swaybar choices, all suspension members and mounts must be in good shape. You can inspect the dogbones in the rear suspension visually. If any joints have rubber sticking out replace it. Grab the differential at the u-joint and shake it up and down to check the differential mounts. If they are loose replace them. Check ALL ball joints,and steering joints for tightness.

With everything in good shape, stock springs and fresh Bilsteins, you will have a great driving car. Go one step further with a 500E rear bar, and you will have a greater driving car.

My $0.02,
Larry

If you carry heavy loads, I'd avoid sportline springs and sport shocks. Starting off with a lowered stance probably won't help.

Urethane bushings are available but I hear they're ridiculously stiff for everyday driving. I don't know if a urethane strut mount is available.

There are a couple of bushings on the aft end of the diff that are probably shot if the car was driven with harsh shifts. Look under the car and see if the bolts going into the diff from behind are centered in their bushings. Most likely the left bolt has bottomed in the bushing cavity.

There is a carrier bearing between the rear knuckle and the lower control arm. It's not obvious from a casual glance there's a bushing in that joint. That bushing is notorious for causing an embarrassing creak when you put weight in the car. Sounds like the frame bending.

Sixto
87 300D

x2 on the rear bushing, between the wheel carrier and control-arm, EXTREMELY common creak/failure at this age (same location as a lower ball joint in the front). You'll need to remove the wheel to see it well, rubber boots are probably gone and the bushing shot. The most commonly failed rubber part in the rear suspension is the thrust-arm, the upper link going forward from the wheel-carrier, you buy the link complete and the updated bolt/mounting kit, fairly inexpensive and simple to replace.

Front is possibly the ball-joint. If the boot is good, and the joint tight, you might have luck with greasing the joint with a hypodermic-needle style grease-gun adapter and high-pressure lube (such as CV joint grease). On a '93 I'm not sure the ball-joint is replaceable, might need new control-arms (which come witn new bushings so all is good).

Mine has a little squeak noise in the back too....eventually I will look into it....I figured it was one of the bushings/arms. First thing to replace is the front strut mounts though.

OK, I definitely don't want to lower this car. I've had a lowered car in the past and it was miserable to drive around town.

If I find a 500E rear sway bar, will I have to modify anything to install it.

Can I just hook it up to whatever exists on the car now?

Did you buy new shock springs or just use the originals?

Thanks for your help.

The 500E is a bolt in swap. In order to change the rear sway bar on the 124 cars, you have to unbolt the suspension mounts and lower the assembly a little to snake the old bar out and the new one in. You don't have to disconnect brake lines or anything like that, just lower it a bit, just enough to get the job done.

As I said before, I have stock springs and regular Bilstein Heavy Duty shocks all around. With the stock front sway bar and the 500E rear bar the car is amazing. The only regret I have is all the messing around I did in the course of discovering this. If I had it to do over, I would have bought a 500E rear sway bar the day I bought the car. I would have then simply maintained the suspension and made no other modifications.

I bought my 500E sway bar from FastLane. It cost a little over $200. That was a number of years ago, so I don't know what one would cost now.

I have the HDs on my SDL and it rides like a dream. It is very controllable but not harsh.

OK, this might be sacrilege but I am considering KYB GR-2 struts and shocks.

On fleabay, the KYB set is $226 including shipping and the Bilsteins are $469 including shipping.

I've read some good reviews on this product but I wanted to ask around here before I bought them.

The price is right and I know how good Bilsteins are. I just don't know if they're that much better.

Not worth it. Stick with Bilsteins. Since it is expensive. I did my rear shocks first....and now I am saving/waiting a while to do the front struts.

Don't forget that for the front struts you will need the strut mount pads too.

OK, I just wanted to know if you bought new stock springs.

I have looked high and low for a 500E rear sway bar but I have only found one at the dealership. $300 something plus tax.

Anybody know of a salvage yard that might have one and would ship it to me?

I live in the Texas panhandle and I haven't found a salvage yard around here yet that has a W124 500E.

KYB = Keep Your Bilsteins

osprey,

I used the 500E bar because it was available. There are heavy aftermarket bars available from companies like Eibach and H&R.

I would suggest that you go to the performance Forum or whatever it's called here and do a search. Several years ago, there was a spreadsheet available there with the diameters of the various 124 factory bars. Find out what diameter the 500E bar is and find a solid aftermarket bar that is AT LEAST that size.

I've regretted every KYB GR-2 replacement. I've never put them on an MB though.

sixto
87 300D

Yes in the course of my 124 suspension learning experience I went through a set of KYB's. They are durable and well made, but you could get the same effect by fabricating steel rods and putting them in the place of the shocks and struts.

I agree. My KYBs were fine at controlling the chassis, but made it ride like a Corvette (pickup truck).

Do you mean the strut mount or something else?

Did you have them on a W124?

Was it a 300D?

Was it uncomfortably stiff?

I will be driving almost exclusively on the highway and I am becoming very cheap.

I will also have to replace the strut mounts so I am trying to cut costs as much as possible.

Has anybody ever used Sachs-boge replacements?

Are they any good?

I put a set of KYB Monomax on my '98 Jeep Cherokee and I really liked the results.

I am getting nose dive on braking and a really wallowy ride.

I haven't had a bad experience with KYB but I haven't put them on a MB either.

What didn't you like about them?

It was an '87 300D (W124), and it was IMO uncomfortably stiff with high-end Goodyear / stock size 195s.

My current 124 with OE shocks and 215/55-VR16 Michelins rides MUCH better and handles better FWIW.

I used Bilstein comforts/OEM on the back of my W124, I think it rides very nice.

I am not sure about the front struts...they should probably be replaced, but they don't seem to be "all the way dead"....you can't make the car bounce up front....one of them is slightly leaking some oil though, so they are probably just about shot.

As I said in an earlier post, KYB's on a W124, I don't care what engine it has in it, will make you think you mounted steel rods in place of the shocks and struts. That car will jar your teeth out.

I have no doubts that KYB's on a truck or Jeep would be okay, but BELIEVE ME, don't try them on a W124. Been there, done that!

I realize that car wise it may be apples and oranges but I put 4 new Billy Comforts on my 123 and it rides like a new car and can out corner my Jetta wagon with Koni Reds. I do have new Michelins on the Benz and worn out Contis on the VW but still in all it is a great handling and riding combo.

A balanced RWD car can out-corner a front-heavy FWD car? Imagine that. Perhaps that's why you don't see FWD in F1, Indycar, NASCAR, IMSA GTO/GTP, etc. (unless in their own handicap class).

Seriously though, I think that since two of us have BTDT with the 124/KYB combo and feel that it really sucked, probably not money well spent. I'll probably go Bilstein comfort next time for that stock feel, but those adjustable Koni reds in the shop need to go somewhere, ...

Well, I installed Bilstein HDs all the way around on my last W123 and it seemed fine.

I do remember being able to go about 50 mph over a serious dip I didn't see before hand and lived to tell about it.

The Bilsteins completely absorbed the impact. It was like I just cut through a wave in a boat without getting bounced around.

However, I have gone against conventional wisdom and have bought a full set of KYB GR-2s off fleabay for a total of $226.92, shipping included.

I then bought new strut mounts and some regular maintenance items from my regular parts supplier. So, I will be installing the GR-2s next week and hopefully proving some of you wrong.

I have read lots of reviews on them, none were on MB's though, and they seem to get very good reviews from those in Camry's, Maxima's and the like.

They only negative reviews were from ricers that also had sport springs, lowered the car too much for the product, etc.

We'll see.

Larry Bible, you never mentioned which KYB product you used in the past.

Were they the AGX's?

You might be fine with the result, they control the car fine, just IMO cheapen the ride with an un-Mercedes harshness. On a Camry, how could you tell if it made it ride cheap, ... plus each make/model car uses a different shock/strut.

If the bilstein HDs made a 123 handle well, ... if a 124 ever handles like a 123, you need major suspension maintenance.

I can't remember exactly which model KYB I put on my 300E, but AGX doesn't sound right. I think they were GR2's.

It sounds as if you are a penny pincher like I am. That's what made me buy the KYB's to start with. They were cheap. They are well built, but WAY too stiff for the 124.

I must say though, it's interesting when someone asks for advice, then gets actual first hand advice, THEN ignores the advice.

Maybe the harsh ride won't bother you as much as it bothered me. The harsh ride is only part of the equation. When the ride is too harsh, what comes along with that is too much dampening that prevents the tire from staying planted on the pavement better. When the tire is not consistently planted on the pavement, handling suffers.

I wish you the best of luck with them.

Yeah, I am sometimes funny that way.

It has been suggested in the past that I insist on learning the hard way.

Either way, I've already paid for them.

Another question I had was how many miles did you two have on the cars when you installed the KYB's?

I have almost 225K now but there have been some suspension parts replaced by the previous owner. I don't think the springs were, though.

My front struts are completely toast and at least one rear is too.

If the KYB's are as stiff as you two say they are, I will be in a completely different car.

It is very windy here and a couple of times a week the car seems like it wants to roll over when I get as stiff cross wind.

I may be over reacting by going with the stiffer option but that is a very unsettling feeling that I want to avoid. Oh, and I'm CHEAP.

If history is any indicator, at least half of my cheapness-motivated moves turn out to be very frustrating.

So as I see it, I have a 50/50 chance of being happy with my decision.

Another thing in my favor is the very soft-sided tires I have on the car right now.

They are General Altimax HP's and they have a very soft sidewall.

They are highly recommended on Tirerack for performance and mileage but it has been acknowledged that they are a bit soft.

They're rated second in their class, Grand Touring All Season.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=General&tireModel=Altimax+HP

According to my calculations I will have a stiffer ride than stock(which is NOT what I have now with blown, cheap aftermarket struts and shocks) but also a softer tire than stock.

I am hoping for a reliably firm but not harsh ride with this combination.

I'll also have to remember this when I replace these tires in about 50K so that I don't beat myself to death with a firmer tire.

I will update this thread when I have installed the KYB's and have a few miles on them.

Wish me luck!

Well, I didn't say the 123 handled well but it was acceptable.

It definitely could absorb some serious dips and potholes with aplomb but the handling was still a little iffy even with all the suspension upgrades I completed.

As I said I'm a cheap skate too. That's why buying the Bilsteins was so hard to take. I took off a perfectly good set of KYB's to put on the expensive Bilsteins that I should have paid for in the first place.

Although I AM a cheap skate, in my 60 years on this Earth I have finally learned not to pass up Dollars to pinch Pennies. That's what I did when I bought those KYB's. As I recall, I sold them to someone and got some of my money back. Getting rid of them in place of a set of Bilsteins was one of the best things that I did in the course of trying to make the car drive and handle they way I wanted it to.

Well, I just revealed that the existing shocks/struts are GABRIEL.

From what I can gather Gabriel in English means JUNK.

They are junk shocks/struts that are also beaten to smithereens.

Those KYB's should be quite different.

Well, the deed is done.
 

And....I am very impressed.

There is no harsh ride I was warned about.

The KYB GR-2 front struts are working just fine as are the KYB Gas-A-Just rear shocks.

My cornering has improved dramatically as has my braking.

There is no harsh ride whatsoever and big dips are completely absorbed.

My Verdict:

Excellent buy! :D

I don't know what others installed them on but I have nothing but good to say about them.

I only have about forty miles on them so far but I have driven interstate, large, sweeping, circular entrance ramps and rough city roads.

They even do very well on the brick-paved streets we have here in town.

The front right strut was in pretty bad shape as were both bump stops with the right one looking worse.

Once off the car, I would push in the strut rod and it would come out all herky-jerky like something was binding up inside.

The left one did it too but not as bad.

The rears were completely gone as I suspected.

I gained about an inch of body height in the rear with the replacements.

I didn't measure the front but it looks like it raised it a bit as well.

I also replaced the front strut mounts with some Meyle heavy duty replacements that claim they exceed OEM standards.

I am more impressed with the upgrade on this W124 than I was with my W123 that I installed Bilstein HD's on.

go with the bilstein hd's

If you would have read ahead you would have seen that I went with the KYB GR-2's and they worked out beautifully.

Thanks for the advice anyway.

I'm glad that they worked out well for you. It very well could be that KYB learned that these were too stiff for the chassis and modified the valving. I am not the only one who complained about them back about ten years ago. Since they are not too stiff I'm sure that they will serve you well for a long time.

Mine were installed about 2years ago on my '87 300D, but perhaps they have changed, or it's just the taste of the user. I remember how my '91 rode new, and liked it, didn't want it any softer nor harsher.

I also am happy it worked out for you.

I should also qualify that my only reference point for ride quality on the W124 chassis was this car with very bad shocks and struts.

So, I guess you have to take my experience with a grain of salt.

I have however owned many, many cars and I have to say this set up is very good.

Since I have heard it suggested that the W124 was what Lexus was trying to reproduce, I would have to say that mine definitely doesn't ride like a Lexus but it is acceptable and much more predictable than my previous setup.

It does indeed sound like they have made the appropriate adjustments in the product.

This setup is very good.

For the record, I have KYB GR-2 struts up front and KYB Gas-A-Just shocks in the back.

The 124 was the car that everyone had benchmarked. When it first hit the streets, people were amazed. It was described by one auto rag as "like it was machined from a single block of steel" as it had an industry shocking highest resonant-frequency chassis in the industry, by a huge margin, IIRC it was 54hz and at least 15Hz above the next-best chassis.

Tires make a big difference also, good tires can show a car's best, bad tires make any car ride and/or handle like a POS.

Oh, and my younger brother was Product Planner, All New Vehicles for Lexus BTW.

Even without doing research I would bet good money, that KYB has made a change to these products since the time that I bought a set about 10 years ago. There could be NO ONE that would not have noticed a log wagon stiff suspension with the same KYB's that I bolted on at that time.

I fully expect that people were raising hell and they had to improve their product for this application.

I can say that the W124 is eons ahead of the venerable W123.

It's also the best car I have ever owned/driven.

Occasionally I have to rent a car for a week at a time for work and I am always completely disgusted with it by the time I return it.

Even with shot struts and shocks I couldn't wait to get back into my 16 year old MB.

Those brand new Malibus that everybody was praising is a POS with a turning radius of a Mack truck.

It's a long, ugly, poorly designed POS.

What a shame that is considered an achievement for American cars.

However, it is much less expensive than an MB.

I hear the Cadillac CTS-V is a real quality car according to Top Gear's James May.

Well, I drove it for about three hundred miles today and I must say that it is quite firm.

Big bumps are absorbed very commendably but it's the small, abrupt ones that don't get damped.

For example, a really thick bead of asphalt crack sealant is much more jarring than a proper mound or dip in the road.

I'm starting to see where you were coming from, Larry.

It definitely handles more reliably now and I REALLY like that but I must say that you were quite right about the ride.

It's just those road imperfections that don't quite meet the damping threshold that gnaw on you with these things.

After all that driving today, I was actually a little on edge.

My wishful thinking from the previous post must now be tempered with some reality.

They do absorb bumps and dips beautifully but it's the small stuff that eats on me.

The 124 is ahead of the 123 in many regards as it should be since it is 10 or more years newer technology.

Where the 124 falls short is in simplicity. Including my Wife and families 123 experiences, I have very close to a million miles of experience maintaining and right at 800,000 miles experience behind the wheel of 123's. I have about 260,000 miles or so experience behind the wheel and maintaining my manual transmission 300E.

To do a more meaningful comparison, you need to separate the 123 four cylinder cars from the 123 five cylinder cars. The four cylinder 123's are the epitome of simplicity. The 123 five cylinder is actually not that much more complex, but when it comes to wrenching on them the four is much easier than the five. If comparing to other cars, the five cylinder 123 is often easier to work on and more simple than most any other car of it's production time or later.

That said, the four cylinder diesel 123 car with manual accessories IMHO is the best car FOR ITS TIME ever produced! Does it drive as well as the 124? Of course not. Is it as quiet as a 124? No way. But if you want a car that offers great reliability, easy servicability and economy along with a pleasant driving experience the manual everything 240D is King.

What IS a very fair and correct statement about these two cars is: "Sitting behind the wheel the advantage is CLEARLY in favor of the 124. With wrench in hand, the winner is CLEARLY the 123.

My $0.02,