A Win For 'Diesels'
 

Maybe this country is slowly starting to learn what the Europeans have known for years.

Sounds good. I saw one of the new insights the other day. I liked the looks of it.

Those mileage figures all looked low to me. Am I being unrealistic in my expectataions? I thought golf diesels routinely get over 50.

I think the figures are way off, to be honest. I call BS on any EPA diesel rating nowadays..mostly because the new ratings basically just chopped 3-4 mpg off any old car that you know they didn't even test..I mean, my 87 300D was rated 25/30 originally, and now it is just 23/27 or something like that...I can get 31-32 on full highway, and my all time average is 27.x. Go figure, huh. Gas cars are a different story though, since nobody really drives them like they do in the tests, and they don't have a constant efficiency % under part load like diesels do.

Ranting aside, my aunt has a new Jetta TDI wagon, and I think she said she gets upper 30s average, but with a lead foot. Her husband has an 06 Jetta and he gets near 50. I know the new engines have more power, but it shouldn't cost the car an 8-10 mpg drop!

Yeah, the EPA says they "adjusted" (read LOWERED) the fuel econonmy estimates to reflect modern driving habits. Like the 65-70 mph speed limits we have now - compared to the 55 mph speed limit when most of our cars were new - and higher usage of things like AC, which reduce mpg.

I pretty consistently beat the current EPA estimate for my car too. I get 26-27 mpg in my 300CD commuting to work and back every day - 20 miles each way at an average of 30-35 mph (1/3 highway, 2/3 city streets).

Wow that A3 looks awesome! With a TDI I'm thinkin' hard about a new car for the wife now....

It's about time "the Big 3" pulled their heads out of their posteriors and started offering some clean diesels in cars...

EPA mileage is not very accurate...many of the mileage claims are a bit too low. My mother has a 00 TDI and we usually get over 50 mpg on the hhighway. I think the most embarassing test is in consumer reports...They only get like 12 mpg city somehow so the average fuel mileage goes down into the 30s...however all praise the ever-so-glorious hybrids for having decent city mileage and not ruining the tests.

When CR says "City" they really mean it. Few people actually drive all city as CR defines it. But I like their tests, because they actually test in real world driving and give results for a wide variety of driving conditions. Their road trip results are a good guide for what to expect on long trips. IMHO they're a lot more useful than the new EPA estimates.

I've noticed the new, lower estimates seem to have ignited a mileage war in some segments. Like 33 for the Malibu, and 35 for the upcoming Hyundai Sonata.

I wonder how similar are the VW and Audi? Same platform with the Audi being stretched a little? Or different cars entirely?

I saw one of those A3's with the TDI lettering on the door sitting on display outside of the Audi dealer in Ithaca. I knew Audi was going to start selling TDI cars here eventually, but it was the first time I'd seen one. Good for them for finally bringing it over here, even though I wouldn't ever own an Audi or VW...:rolleyes:

I owned a 1983 Audi 5000 turbodiesel 5 cylinder..My very first diesel. 2 litre great car and approached the 40mpg figure. I lost the car after lending it to my brother long ugly story. Audi imported that model in 82 & 83 only.

The 96 Passat TDI approached 50mpg with the 1.9 litre engine. I sold this one to buy the 99 E300.

I am getting a consistent 32 to 33 MPG with the E300 and it has a 3.0 litre.

The prius is only effective in the city. Out in the country the Passat beats it hands down. These 2 cars I am comparing are 10 years apart in age. This tells me the German engineering is 10 years ahead. Oh, I forgot to mention that the VW has an enormous trunk

My MPG is of course on flat ground with no AC going 55mph.

My most recent expierence with our 2002 Audi A6 quattro will not permit me to buy another Audi. I am done with Audi's

I forgot to mention in my last post that the Audi A6 Quattro costs more to maintain each year than a 40 foot sailboat...

Yeah a lot of people who live in the country forget what city driving really means. I always get pretty much right at the EPA city rating with my vehicals. With winter gas in my truck I'm getting 14.5 now, while guys in more rural areas do 3-4 mpg better than that.

I'm very happy about this mileage war. Cars already have more than enough power, to much if you ask me for daily driving. Who needs a damn near 300hp V6 to go pick up a gallon of milk? I know I'm waiting for a manufacture to introduce a 1/2 diesel truck, I'll sell mine when I see that.

Hatteras you make an excellent point. In the same venue, this is how we have ended up with a 3000# VW Golf, and a 5000# "mini" van. You are also correct that the average person does not need a 4 cam 4 valve engine that develops its rated power at 6-7000 rpm with the help of VVT just to go to the store or other local errands. Most people would be well served with a cast iron 2-valve pushrod engine, and even more wouldn't know the difference.

Big oil already has jacked the price of fuel up, so they're set.

Most family sedans and minivans would be nicely served by a 4 cylinder motor that puts out between 170-190 hp. Pretty much what you get standard in most mid sized sedans like the Accord and Impala.

This big motors for running around town are silly and waste fuel.

Completely agree...I don't see the point of having a minivan that will go 0-60 in 6 or 7 seconds. Hauling might be the only excuse for having a larger engine, but a lot of their weight capacities are capped around 2500-3500lbs.

How does everyone figure out thier fuel milage per gallon?
i see lots of claims but no proof to back it up.
The europeans use liters of fuel used per 100kilometers.
still i would like to know how the results are achieved.

one of the easiest ways i know of is putting the tripmeter to zero and going for a ride of at least thirty miles or more and then going for a drive,making sure to fill up until you see the fuel before you depart and then fill up again.Devide that number of gallons it takes to fill up from the amount of miles traveled inbetween fillups and voila there is your REAL world milage.

i have never used this method on a benz.However I got about 19.9mpg from my twelve valve cummins turbo diesel combined milage using this method.Wich seems to be about average for the vehicle with about a 60/40 highway/city adventure.

I think i was getting about thirty miles per gallon on the highway but i was only going 55mph.that is just a guess.

I am going to try the fill up method soon with my 123 turbo though.

How does everyone figure out thier fuel milage per gallon?or kilometers?

I agree on the horsepower. My 240d gets around fine makes you a more patient driver also.

Problem with the new diesel pickups is all the emissions B.S. theyre adding soon you'll get better mileage from the gassers .

THe new trucks,at least the domestic ones,burn more fuel at times to reduce the emission from the exhaust.there is some kind of trap that catches the particles and then burns them up when more heat is added by adding more fuel.at least,that is what i have read.i dont think
.they recycle the sooty exhaust gas back into the intake nor do they vent the crankcase oily vapors back into the engine in front of the turbo like my 123 tubo does...hmmmmmmmmmmm not sure about the new MB diesels though..i think the new ones add some kind of chemical to the exhaust to make it meet emmision standards.

The best way is to go all the way down to the reserve light, and fill up at the same pump of the same station. Otherwise, things can get skewed pretty quickly.

For example, I always go to the Citgo by my house, and as soon as the reserve light goes on, I fill up nearly dead on 16 gallons (give or take .2 gal)
The other day I decided to get BP, right when the light went off, and somehow I filled up 16.5. How did I fit an extra half gallon? Who knows.

Anyway, most people nowadays use their "mpg calculator" that is onboard, which is usually WRONG. On a roadtrip with my friend in his Altima, it said we were getting 41 mpg...no way. By the end of the trip it was down to like 32. And since he doesn't calculate how much fuel he used, who knows if that was even right.

And as far as minivans, tow capacity, etc..they can't haul anything because they don't have any torque!!! Most modern gas cars are all dyno queens if you ask me, even if they can go 0-60 really fast. 190 hp is worthless if you need to go up to 6500 rpm to get it. How many mpgs do you think these new "suvs" get once you add 4 adults to the weight?

mileage over a few tankfuls
 

The best way I have found is to keep a gas log in the car ( along with other maintenance done). Say you have a 10 gallon tank, the gas shutoff shuts the fill off a gallon early, you're calculated amount will be off by 10%. My preference is to fill up, and then start tracking the fuel and miles over several tanks. That way you only have the potential fill error 1 time over say 40-50 gallons, a 1-2 % error. I also use this to look for longer term trends like mileage going down pointing to the need for a tuneup or other maintenance.

You are right about the onboard mileage counters. The one in my infiniti is consistently 10% high. It says I am getting 29mpg, and by fillup tracking I am getting about 26.

If you have a GPS tracker, turn it on whenever you get in the car. It will tell you how many miles you've traveled +/- a few feet. Then you can tell if your odometer is off at all as well. Fill all the way up to the lip of the tank, measure away, then on your next fill up make sure it gets all the way up there again--then distance traveled divided by the gallons reading on the pump.

I found my odometer started to go way off...what I thought was a drop from 30mpg to 12mpg turned out to be an odometer issue, the GPS verified I'm still getting between 25-30mpg.

I keep a tally in a little log book. Real world estimates I get around 23-24 since it's winter.

In the summer I pushed a steady 25. If I was conservative on the 55mph highway stretch of i90 near my home I could push 26 :D

MPG figures are such a farce. I managed to push my ratings down by driving around Cornell. 16.9, but that was just one fill up.