Larry but explain to me this... Why does my 123 out handle most "sports cars/sedans" eg VWs. Hondas, Toyotas, Mistsubishis and what not? (AND yes, Larry, these are front wheel drivers, we're talking sendans for sedans, not platforms) I would say that a confidence inspiring ride and manner would satisfy my "good handling sedan" reference. So if the 123 is just a fine riding car, so is a 124 and a 210? What about a 126 and the 140, these all are not sports sedans, so they must not handle well either.

Now that I've shocked everyone and gone negative about the 123's that I love so much, I'm impressed by the zealousness of my fellow 123 enthusiasts.

When I think of great handling, to me that means sports car, go to the limit type handling. I think everyone here is speaking of just tooling around type of handling.

I'm impressed by everyone having such blind love for these cars. As they say, love is blind.

Long live the 123,

I've heard concerns voiced in this thread about compression braking causing instability on slippery roads. I live near the Poconos and have driven icy, alpine-like roads each winter since 1975. I've always subscribed to the practice of driving one gear higher than normal in slippery conditions. I've found that this practice lessens the degree of compression braking available, and makes for better vehicle control. Even then, like another poster, I often declutch (or shift into Neutral with an automatic) when I feel that maintaining perfectly equal rotational speeds on all four wheels will keep me out of the woods.

I'm not attempting to portray myself as an expert on anything for the simple reason I'm not, but at the age of 16, I was negotiating icy mountain roads in a 1976 Firebird Espirit, one of the most unpredictable, traction-free, miserable cars on the planet on icy roads, and lived to post about it. Truly trial by fire (and ice).

I've never driven a W115, but I would think it would have MORE body roll than the W123! No body roll means pretty flat cornering... a bit hard for me to imagine in a W115!

Front sway bar on a W115 is about an inch thick. Rear is also pretty stiff. Corners VERY flat -- almost no body roll in good shape (i.e. good sway bar bushings!). They sit a little lower than a W123, too, I think. Sure seems like it, anyway.

I was warned by my mechanic about the tire issue -- he's seen it often in Germany.

Nice throttle steer if you can set the car up correctly going into a turn, no reason to expect that the W123 would be any different -- more throttle the rear comes out and the turn tightens, less and the rear moves in and turn widens. Great fun to blast down a cloverleaf in a power slide in a 220D! (only downhill, alas!)

Peter

Attn: Donkey
 

I hate to disagree with a senior member and I hope not to get put into detention for this but.... not all of VW's firt 2 generations were made in the Homeland. Rabbits were made in Pennsylvania. Westmoreland, Pa. To be more precise. I had to use this as leverage to get my Uncle to let me park it in his driveway when I went to visit him. ( union ties and all that crap..i.e. DON'T EVEN THINK about parking that FOREIN car in MY driveway) So I asked him when Pa. left the US. I believe '81-'84 (square headlights) A-1 chassis were made in the US.
VW still can't make 'em handle like the A-1's did. I thought I posted about this last night, but I don't see it anywhere? ?When they went to the A-2's they ran into that "where is the road" feeling that is so apparent in most cars nowadays. The A-1 VW's were a drivers car.

That said, my W115 will take the same curves at much higher speeds on my route without me wondering when I'll break away and have to employ counter measures! BTW, thanks for the heads up about the "tires leaving" on the 115's I'll keep this in mind in the future! Tom

Our Rabbits had the round headlights

my mom wouldn't have the VW's built anywhere but Germany
(her being German and all.....)

Larry id have to agree with your comments above anyone elses.

When i first RODE in a W123 years ago, i thought it was the most comfortable ride i had experienced in a "small car" if you will. The first time i DROVE one was a different experience. At the time i felt the steering was balanced, yet heavy. I thought the car was geared towards ride and not handling. I still think this. A very BALANCED combo between ride and handling i must admit, and after a few thousand miles you become very confident with these cars. Today, i appreciate the heavy steering feel.
Ive pushed my W123 though some hard corners fast, and enjoy what those 14 tires can do, but really 15 inchers would improve things greatly. As for foul weather handing~thats where i am more careful. I can slip those rear tires easily from a stoplight in the rain. Never loose control, but that torque is just too much for those tires. These are heavy cars to be equiped with 14in tires, so please becareful out there, we dont want any of these W123s wrecked!

Oh my.... my SD turns 18 in February. What should I do for its birthday? Treat it to all synthetic lubricants? Perhaps...

Anyway, I thought my 1977 300D handled pretty well, and the last 123 I drove, a 1984 300TD, felt a lot more tossable than my 126. The 123 feels a lot more like a 108 than a 126, at least to my own limited experience.

I have had my share of white-knuckle driving in my SD, and I try to avoid taking it out in the snow. Mine will even slide pretty easily in rain, but my front tires are wearing fast.

I believe my 300D will be 20 this April, I gotta go look on the data plate

I owned my '77 300D when it turned 21. It became old enough to drink while in my possession, and no, I did not get drunk and drive it that month :)

My 126 300SDL is by far the best handling car i've ever owned. Blows away any 123. We've had some fun times together :) :)

Some of you mentioned tires on the 123. Tires are very critical on how the car drives in all conditions. I put Avon CR338s and the car handles well in the rain, whereas when I had the Cooper Trendsetters, the car was a terror. I can even get violent with the car and it tracks nicely in the rain.... Something to think about.

Oh, John, I think that nice 300SDL is sold, though this morning I saw it on the street with a window sticker... Possibly the shop owner using it??? I'm still thinking about it.

We had a 91 420 SEL, is the 300SDL any different with the handling???

For those who live in Norther California...
 

you should appreciate this.

I made it from McKinleyville to the 5 freeway via the 20 in 4 hours and 15 minutes. Not bad for a 79 123 I'd say.

Frank.

I can personally vouch for the tendency of the 175-SR14 Continental tires my 1975 240D came with to pop off the rims. I had two of them come off once, when I felt they should not have. Needless to say it was an experience I did not want to repeat. My solution was to run with 195/70-HR14 Michelin tires (XAS as the time) since they were rated for 20% or more higher weight, and provided better traction in all conditions. The car and I never experienced another tire come off a rim after that, which consisted of 200,000 miles and 15 years of travelling together across the country.

I agree the older car sat lower and cornered flatter than a W123 but it was not as comfortable a ride, and it is not really clear to me that it "handled" significantly better. The flatter cornering inspired additional confidence, but the ultimate limits were not a lot better than the 1982 240D we still drive today.

Jim