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#1
02-15-2010, 04:39 PM
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Crankshaft Bolt Woes (Harmonic Balancer)
Hi guys, long time lurker here that never needed to post. Up to this point, everything I've needed to ask had already been answered here, but I'm really stuck with this one.
It seems that the Harmonic Balancer on my recently acquired 1983 240D was removed and reinstalled incorrectly by a previous owner and has started to come off. The Balancer is now spinning on the nose of the crankshaft and has a lot of play. I seems like the big 27mm bolt started backing out, but then seized. I removed the starter and used a flywheel locking tool to hold the crankshaft in place, but when i put my 18" breaker bar to the crankshaft bolt I couldn't budge it. I put a galvanized pipe over the handle and went back to it after heating the bolt up and cooling it with water and the breaker bar broke at the 1/2" swivel head. I've got a replacement balancer and crankshaft bolt with new dowel pins, and I'm planning to drill new 8mm holes in the crankshaft nose and balancer to affect a repair, but I can't even think of that until I get that stupid bolt off!  What do you guys think? Just apply more heat and keep trying?
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#2
02-15-2010, 05:21 PM
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I'd use a 3/4" or 1" breaker bar. The torque on that bolt is almost 300 lbs so it can take a lot of force to loosen. Not sure if it will work on a 617 but I know it's possible to break the bolt free using the starter in some circumstances. If you do, make damn sure you'll pulling a vacuum on the shut off valve when you crank the engine.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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#3
02-15-2010, 05:31 PM
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Already tried the starter trick with the breaker bar wedged against a cinder block. Wouldn't even budge, just ended up lifting the car a few inches.
I guess I'll have to buy another breaker bar. I hate the idea of buying another socket just for this, but I don't trust a 1/2" to 3/4" socket adapter to hold for that kind of torque. I guess an impact adapter would be likely to handle it.
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#4
02-15-2010, 05:38 PM
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I used a 1/2" bar w/ extension, took out the radiator, and rested the bar on the frame & a wood scrap (driver's side, I think). Bump the starter and bob's your uncle. You might wire the e-stop in the stop position, but I've never known my 616 to start in 1/2 a turn when cold & w/out glow. Mind the rotation (CW as viewed from the bumper) so you don't whack the ***** out of the frame.
If you break a bigger bar, I'd consider a big impact wrench, but make sure you don't just beat the crap out of whatever part of the engine was keeping the balancer from rotating. If you pull the radiator and shift the condensor, you can have a straight shot at the big bolt. You might prick the center and use HSS drills to drill the head off, use an EZ out to get the threaded body out.
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CC: NSA All things are burning, know this and be released. 82 Benz 240 D, Kuan Yin 12 Ford Escape 4wd You're four times It's hard to more likely to concentrate on have an accident two things when you're on at the same time. a cell phone. www.kiva.org It's not like there's anything wrong with feeling good, is there?
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#5
02-15-2010, 06:08 PM
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Answer
Diesel Harmonic Balancer threads
Diesel Harmonic Balancer threads Main seal front/rear and harmonic balancer + Pulley http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/266668-main-seal-front-rear-harmonic-balancer-pulley.html#post2352212
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#6
02-15-2010, 09:21 PM
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1" or 3/4" drive is the best option. Other wise you are trying to get a boy to do a mans job!! 3/4" drive socket sets are hard to break. But then if you are not doing much heavy work they may be an over kill. Do you know any one with heavy earth moving gear? They will have what you need. We regularly have to tighten bolts with a 10' extension and full body weight.
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Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....  1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket. 1980 300D now parts car 800k miles 1984 300D 500k miles  1987 250td 160k miles English import  2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles  1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo. 1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion. Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
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#7
02-15-2010, 09:54 PM
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Too bad none of my local Craftsman retailers carry anything in 3/4" drive let alone 1" drive. I guess I'll have to order a 3/4" bar and an impact socket for that bolt. Even my neighbor's hot rod resto shop didn't have a stuff that big.
What gets me though, is that the bolt seems to have partially backed out given the amount of play in the balancer. I can't understand how it could have frozen to the point of destroying my breaker bar after backing out like that.
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#8
02-15-2010, 10:01 PM
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If you cant get it to unscrew, try doing it up a fraction first.
Maybe the bolt was not loose, just stretched & so the balancer is loose. Speed shops and other consumer places wont have heavy duty tools. A local road grader operator or dozer owner is who you are looking for. Heating the bolt wont work, its the crank where the bolt screws in that needs heating.
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort.... 1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket. 1980 300D now parts car 800k miles 1984 300D 500k miles 1987 250td 160k miles English import 2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles 1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo. 1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion. Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
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#9
02-15-2010, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Hit me offline and let's chat (hopefully you're back in fighting shape!) Ben
__________________
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" - Thomas Edison- 1979 300SD 1975 450SL 2014 Ram Cummins Megacab (tow rig)
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#10
02-16-2010, 09:48 AM
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Yes
Quote:
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#11
02-16-2010, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
__________________
 1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale 2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold 2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably) 1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast) 1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style) 2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)
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#12
02-16-2010, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
It'll be a day or two until I manage to leverage some heavier tools against that stupid bolt. Until then, I was hoping to collect war stories on stuck bolts and nuts from other members.
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#13
02-18-2010, 03:02 AM
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Great news! It turns out I didn't need a big honkin' 3/4" breaker bar or a huge impact wrench! A pipe over a brand new 1/2" craftsman bar did the trick!
The trick being, getting the balancer off the crankshaft nose, but as with all deals you make with the devil, you only get exactly what you ask for. The bolt BROKE clean as you please, allowing the balancer to come off while leaving half the bolt in the crankshaft. The only thing that kept me from breaking down and crying, is that the nose is still in pretty good shape. I test fitted the new balancer to the now exposed nose, and the fit is nice and tight. If I can ever rid myself of this f****d up bolt, the repair should be no problem. I already started spraying pb blaster in there and tapping the crank to set up vibration with a ball peen hammer. I'm planning to pick up some dry ice tomorrow and start heating the crankshaft with a propane torch, then shoving pieces of dry ice on the broken bolt. All I can think to use at this point is a big #5 extractor bit on the bolt after drilling a 3/8" pilot hole into it. At this point, I'm willing to hear any ideas from anyone. This sucks. 
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#14
02-18-2010, 05:26 AM
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^^ that does not look promising.
Before I destroyed the crank in the process of removing the remaining bolt... I would remove the crank and bring it to my nearest machine shop. ~emphasis on Lutztd comments
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#15
02-18-2010, 06:05 AM
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I don't mean to be such a naysayer... I have drilled steel of that hardness with very expensive drill bits.
but I am not optimistic that the bits @ a local hardware store will do the deed efficiently. Then expecting an extractor to remove the section of inert bolt is even more unlikely - (as you apply 300 ft*lb to it in a strictly rotational manner)
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