Konstan's 1982 300D Engine Out Thread (part 2)
 

Well, I am starting a new thread, because the old one was getting really long and, well I thought this pic was kind of cool.

(The old thread is here: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/272444-konstans-1982-300d-engine-out-thread.html)

I finally got around to taking the main bearing caps off. Here is what I found under the main bearing cap of the first (closest to the front) main bearing. That bearing is not where it should be, I think...


http://www.andresguns.com/images_oth...in_bearing.jpg

nope, but it got there when you removed the cap.
note the tang. if it had spun, it would be ground off. that tang is intact.
there is however, serious wear on the journal. that band should not be there.

aah, the tang... i bow to your wisdom sir

How did it move? Isn't there a tang on the other side? Where was the bearing in the cap?

very common.
when you pull the cap, the upper bearing falls into the opposite edge, and pushes the lower insert up a bit.
vacuum from the oil skim will pull things oddly as you remove the caps.
the upper (upside down that is...) insert has a tang also, on the adjoining face, so the pivot of the oil skin pushes the bottom insert down, and makes it pop out like that.

measurements
 

Here is the summary of my measurements.

- Cylinder bore - 90.90 mm, all five (#1 has scoring), measured at varying depths
- Crankshaft - conn rod journals 51.95 mm, all 5 of them
- Crankshaft- main journals #1 is 69.90, #2...#6 are 69.95

of those, the only one that stands out is the #1 crank journal, the others are in spec.

I am ordering a set of main bearings, rod bearings and rings; all in standard size.

I am thinking of _not_ lapping the journal surfaces. I am concerned that lapping them would only make them worse (because some grit particle will get stuck there and ruin things).

What do y'all think? To lap or not to lap?

so still no smoking gun on the knock?
.05 mm is not a lot to be out. did you check both sides of the journal? *front and back*
I don't think a set of standard will work with the wear in #1...

Broken ring in the #1 is the closest to smoking gun I have. Plus layback40 says that the play in the Timing Device bushing could have caused it too (new bushing and washer and spacer have been replaced).

The next size for mains is like 69.71, the "1st repair stage" bearings won't fit without grinding... and I don't think I want to go there....

Concerning the crank, at the very least you need to polish it. This can be done by a machine shop, or is a do-it-yourself job if you have fine enough emery cloth. This will usually take out any minor imperfections. You should be able to get by with standard size bearings on the mains. In the old days, bearings would come in 0.001" and 0.002" undersize to account for minimal wear.

When measuring the crank journals, did you measure at different locations along the crank length and at different angles? The journal must be round and not oblong.

I sure hope you honed out the #1 cylinder before ordering the rings. From the previous thread pictures, it looked like the #1 piston was unusable and the scoring was substantial enough that it might need reboring. That #1 cylinder looked like the smoking gun to me. Of course all cylinders need to be honed before installing rings.

Yep, I measured in several places and at different angles; ditto for the cylinder bores.

I am planning to hone the cylinders

What should I use for the crank journals? The fsm calls for 400 grit but that's going to do more than just "polish imperfections"... what should I use?

I have used well oiled 1600 wet&dry. The stuff they finish paint with. I think that would be ok for your crank. Make sure you clean it well after !! You dont want any residue left on it.
We are all going to be interested to see a pic of bore #1 after you hone it!!
Its become a bit of an epic journey!!

:thumbup1:

My dad and I have always used well worn emery cloth strips, 1" wide or so. That stuff is puchased in rolls. Did a quick search and looks like belts used for crankshaft polishing are usually 240 to 400 grit, so the FSM is right on. Personally, I would start with a finer grit than that, 1000 or 1600 as layback40 suggested. You can always go courser if it does not clean up easily or quickly, but always finish with a fine grit. Ths long strips work great if you hold one end in each hand, wrap it approximately 180, and pull it back and forth briskly, working your way across and all around the journal.

That 'band' that you all see on the journal feels like it's only color, you know that, right? I mean, there isn't any kind of ridge there or anything (I guess I'd be in real trouble if I could feel a ridge there :D)

it's likely more a trick in the light from the oil passage to the "polished" surface.
the machine shops I use have 1.5" emery cloth on a belt sander and they ride it on the journals as they revolve the crank in a lathe... ya might wanna see what a local machine shop would charge to lightly polish the crank, and "fit" the inserts to the crank!

You also might want to send the rod out to check it for straightness. The piston on that number one cylinder was messy combined with the band on the crank main nearest it. Almost like something was not running straight.

The engine might have been hydrolocked for example at some point in the past. I personally would not put any money in until the problem or a pretty good indication of the problem is identified. There apparently was a noise at the top end on the number one cylinder remember. I doubt it was caused by the broken ring.

#1 piston and rod are being replaced... true it is just another used piston but it looks just like all my other pistons i.e. smooth, not all beaten up and the grooves are in decent shape.

update
 

Well, today I replaced the rear crank seal (wow, I am glad I did - the old seal was like a fossilized rock). I also removed the pulley, balancer and all that stuff from the front and will be replacing the front seal. I stripped one of the allen bolts while removing the pulley and had to hammer a 8pt 12mm socket onto it to get it off...

Tomorrow I will put the new seal in and hopefully will find a place where I can borrow a torque wrench that goes up to a gazillion N-m.

To all y'all who hesitate about replacing those seals "while you are in there": IF YOU have them out and see what those seals have turned into, how hard they are and how they crumble, you will be glad to replace them. So, DO THE SEALS!

I also replaced all the rubber parts in the oil drain tube in the upper oil pan while I was doing the rear seal in it...

Oil pans installed.

http://www.andresguns.com/images_oth..._installed.jpg

Head is on, tightening the head bolts as I type (10 min cooldown period before doing steps 3 and 4 90 degree angle torque).

Man, tightening the head bolts is stressful, for a first-timer, at least.

40Nm - easy.
70Nm - also easy.
wait 10 min - piece of cake. Have a cigarette, drink a coke (too early for beer, dont want to get an evil eye from the missus)
90 degree - well, they all turned ok but it was hard
90 degree again - had to get a bigger breaker bar, and I was kind of worried the whole time that I will break something. :eek:

In addition, the last few bolts in the last step turned easier - maybe because all the others have already squished everyhing... hard to quantify, them last bolts just seem to turn easier than the first ones.... so I thought I'd see what y'all say

And yes, I am reusing the bolts, :o and yes, I should've bought the new ones, but after the rings, bearings and all the other stuff the project was getting to be over budget.

But the head is now on, so now I can go and fret about whether I did it right...

Looks good !!!! This has been a long time coming !!! I may have knocked those dents out of the pan while it was off, not that important though.
The motor should purrr like a kitten when you get it back in & running!!!

Good Luck !!!!!!

So, dont worry about the head bolts? Can I check their torque or retorque them or something? Get a life? What's that?

Don't know about those head bolts. It would give me the heebie jeebies too. But probably not the screaming willies.
Pre-dented oil pans give the freedom to hit speed bumps at escape velocity.

The Plan
 

Yes. Thank you all for reminding me why I keep coming here :)))

Here is my plan.

I am going to loosen these last 4 bolts by 90 degrees. Then I am going to torque them to 2nd step (70).

Then wait 10 min, then steps 3 and 4.

So there.

UPDATE: the bolts are all good. Everything tightened up correctly, in sequence, and with the proper torque. I redid the last two bolts just so I can sleep better at night.

On to the camshaft and the rocker arms now.

Yay, the rocker arms are in place and the valves adjusted. Now I need to install the various odds and ends like a/c compressor, alternator, manifolds, turbo, etc.

At this rate, you may have it done by winter !!
:whip:

That's the plan, my wife wants her garage spot before it gets to be below freezing here.... She's been a real sport about not being able to park in the garage for over a year.

Best you treat you wife well konstan, good ones are harder to come by than good benz's !!

Yeah, and good Benz's cost less:D

I got the motor in, bolted to the mounts and ALL the transmission connections hooked up and the driveshaft connected.

I am now working on hooking up the rest of the connections. I still have to put the condenser and the radiator back in, too.

It's getting dark outside though... I think I'm gonna quit for now. I don't really want to rush connecting everying else together in one single breath anyway...

What do I do when I have it all connected and filled with oil/atf/zerex/ps? Just pray, then prime and start? Any special procedure to starting for the 1st time?

Put your battery on the charger over night.
Plenty of cranking to get fuel up the hard lines will be needed. Dont overheat the starter.
Dont rev it up when it first starts & have some one ready at the stop leaver if it tries to rev up.

Once its running, vary the revs up and down ~ 1000 to 2000 rpm for a minute or 3.
Check for leaks.
Take it for a drive if all is well. Dont labor it or rev it too much. Try and vary the revs.

If you put plenty of oil around the pistons/rings when you assembled it, expect a bit of smoke when it starts.

Have you double checked the cam & IP timing ?

We all have our fingers crossed for a good start !!

I used Sta-lube assembly lube on all the parts that come in contact: cylinder walls, rings, bearings, crankshaft, and also on the valve stems. Used almost 2/3 of a tube. I didnt put any on the camshaft.

Cam timing is a-ok (I had lock ties holding it together) and i did ip timing check after I put the motor back together:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/284464-there-way-sure-my-timing-chain-didnt-skip-tooth.html

If you put new rings on and honed the cylinders you may want to consider a heavy loading on the engine for a break-in period.


as soon as the engine has oiled up and seems smooth, run it as hard as you can up a hill, full load or the best you can throw at it.

this procedure best sets the rings while there is still some bite left on the cylinder walls.

Once you get it going, as jt suggests, you will need to give it a number of accelerations or up hill runs to bed the rings. Initial run needs to be light though to let the new bearings bed without grabbing.
Hope that make sense.

Greeeaaat... Went to close and cleanup for the night... the hood WON'T CLOSE. The motor sits too high, the hood hits the valve cover... now what??:mad:

I know it'll be blasphemy. cut the hood make a scoop (I'm kidding) any way to shorten the motor mounts?

is it possible to reverse the arms (L and R) and still have the engine sit on the mounts?

Pic please !! are your new mounts much different to the old ones?
What part of the hood is on the motor?
There must be something out of place.
You dont have spacers under the mounts?
You dont still have a jack under the motor?

yup. you gotta post some pics of the engine in the bay, and let us critique it. somtin is not where it's supposed to be...

Without pictures I can only guess - but - have you by any chance got the rear (gearbox) engine mount positioned correctly? Are you popping a wheely?

The front part of the valve cover is what's hitting the hood. It's quite a bit, too, maybe 3 or 4 inches too high

By looking down where the mounts are, everything is centered; the only thing that looked odd this morning is the pass. side trans cooler line rests uncomfortably on a bracket where the motor mount is... I will gently bend it out of the way and see what happens... hard to imagine something as flimsy as the trans cooler line holding the whole motor up though

Definitely will post pics when I get home tonight.

Again without any pics, it's hard to determine this issue. But to guess possible a cause, I would check to make sure the engine shocks are not mounted incorrectly or not frozen if reused, and make sure the trans mount is correctly positioned to make sure it is not putting an upward angle to the engine alignment.



.

I took the engine shock out before installing the motor. I didn't feel like I was going to have enough control with the cherrypicker to put the engine shock end exactly where it was supposed to go and it would've gotten bent. I will install it later.

If you have new engine mounts, the trans mount is correctly positioned and all moving accessories are clear to move, you might have to start and run the engine to get the new engine mounts to settle down.




.

No oil or trans fluid in it, yet, either... could that be why?

Along the above lines is this,
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I use this method on a 125 and 250 two stroke motocross engines with excellent results.

I am not rich enough to have a new car or rebuilt engine to do it on but if I had then I would not hesitate to use this method ,just ensure the motor is properly warm first

No.

+1. Something is put in wrong or a wrong part was used.

if you have not bolted the trans crossmember up yet, the engine is just tilting on the mounting arms.

no big deal.