dissembling R4 compressor
 

Anyone have an exploded view of an R4 compressor or info/ pics of disassembly process?

I don't like the sound of the bearing on the R4 from my 240D parts car and would like to replace the bearing before using it.

The chances of any normal human being having all the special tools to do this correctly is zero... I have the MB AC manual with the take apart procedure..
but my scanner is not set up at this time.... if you take my word on it it will save you a lot of time and effort... find a good new one and install it correctly.. meaning full flush before hand.. you know all the rest of the ' drill '... and do not hit it with any sticks...

It's the bearing on the freewheel pulley that is a little noisy, not the compressor. I got the rusty center nut off of the practice R4 from the 300DT (with a bad solenoid coil) with Freeall penetrating oil, 3/8 breaker bar, 14 mm socket and impacted it off with a rubber mallet. I am going to Autozone and see if they have a puller that will fit. Hope the bearing in there is standard off the shelf.

THAT is a tad bit different from the title of this post...LOL
you may can do that just fine...
But someplaces in there are some very close tolerances...

a new clutch should take care of that fine.

I dont think the OP is off the title at all.....Just maybe not to the degree that you were thinking....so perhaps "misleading" to some.

I would think that in order to disassemble the compressor, one would need to remove the clutch assembly.

I too am interested in this info as I have a noisy clutch assembly on my W123.

I have seen the pictures of taking the actual R4 apart .... EEEEEEKKKKKK !!!!!!
Well, I will modify that..
normal people can take it apart just fine..
putting it back together and it working a reasonable time... that is different...

I got a puller from Autozone. Set it up to pull on the pulley against the center bolt. Did not budge! Is the oulley not what I should pull on? Do I have to remove the 6 staked 8 mm bolts on the perimeter of the solenoid?

Leathermang, instead of posting about normal and abnormal people, how about posting some pertinent info from the Mercedes AC manual that you have?

Because my scanner is not set up with this computer..
WHAT ? you won't take my word on it ?

You don't have to scan it. Just say: "you need this puller to go on xxx, and pull xxx, not xxx" etc.

FYI data
 

http://www.xmanproject.com/tutorials/r4/r4_repair.php

http://www.sanden.com/images/SD_Service_Guide_Rev.2.pdf

http://www.cpsproducts.com/site/elements/download/PDFs/%2373-007%20AC10868A.pdf

http://www.snapon.com/ac/pdf/AC_Catalog2010.pdf

http://www.toolsunlimited.com.au/catoologue/T&E/T&E%20section%206%20Airconditioning%20Tools.pdf

Thanks whunter just the info I need!!! Good you are not a teaser like the leather guy.:rolleyes:
Went back to Autozone and they don't have the puller with the correct threads. They have one for the Ford but not for the GM R4.

funola,
Be nice !!! I am sure that Lethermang was just trying to save you a lot of grief !!
I have had my disagreements with him but I have found him to be a person with his heart in the right place.
A long time ago I attempted to make 2 broken R4's in 1 good one. It was the biggest waste of time ever.
Be careful removing the pulley/clutch, it doesnt take much of a shock to damage the front seal on the comp.
To use that sort of language in the same sentence as whunter is not a good look.

Layback40, I edited my post. Is that better? :)

Was it a wastéof time? You did learn something from it didn't you? I love taking things apart! I know I will learn something in the processs. Thanks for the warning on the seal.

It is always fun to take stuff apart...
at that level you may learn something...
but I studied fixing one of these R4's at one time...
and the tolerances and SPECIAL TOOLS ... which I doubt that you , as a non dealer, can even buy.... convinced me it was a factory rebuild job for any chance of it giving reasonable service... keeping in mind that if is explodes you have a huge cleanup and redo job on your AC system.... and my criteria for longevity is 6-8 years with nothing other than a little added refrigerant to replace the designed in leak at the main shaft which keeps that outer seal lubricated.

funola,
Yes thats better!!!!
I wish you luck with your attempts to fix your comp!!!

I disassembled the R4 partially and got the clutch bearing out. I took a lot of pics and will post them later to share so that it may help others who would like to do the same job.

For now I need to find a replacement bearing. It is marked NDH 908287 40mm id, 62 mm od, 24 mm thick. Is that a standard bearing? Autozone wants $28 for one and I am not sure if it is a quality or some junk import. I'm going to look around locally. Used to be a bearing shop nearby (many years ago) not sure if they are still around.

Probably standard, maybe bg405

http://jenniskens.livedsl.nl/Technical/Tips/Files/AC_bearing_specs.pdf
http://www.acsource.com/bysize.aspx

I completely dissassembled a ps pump before to replace the front seal and its working fine still;)

However a high pressure refrigerant compressor is different. Youll probably never get it back together and have it function correctly and efficiently. But if you do, please tell us!

This is the first R4 clutch that I tried to pull with the wrong puller. Instead of using the puller to the left of the red box to pull the clutch plate, I used the puller below the red box to pull the entire clutch assembly. I said it didn't budge but I was wrong. See the 2 circular items in the center? There should only be one (a snap ring). The other circular item is the broken collar where the snap ring fits into. No big deal since this compressor is no good (no pressure or suction) to start with and is perfect to practice disassembly on. This is the one I will disassemble to look inside, not trying to rebuild it.

The puller for the clutch plate is Autozone 27002, it is not listed on their AC loaner tools (the ones listed 27005 and 27007 do not fit the R4). I'll post more pics later

edit: want to add that the Autozone puller 27002 is not the best quality. The compressor center bolt is pointy, so is the puller bolt. After use, the puller bolt mushroomed put! Either it is not properly hardened or not hardened in the first place.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...070610_001.jpg

First the small puller (27002) to remove the pressure plate and the key, then some snap ring pliers to remove the wavy clip, then the large silver puller to remove the magnet and the clutch plate.

L-R in the pic: square key (small), pressure plate, circlip, clutch w/ bearing still installed, magnet with three "pins" that marry up to the compressor for alignment, V-belt pulley.

A good set of snap ring pliers is my next tool purchase.

FYI: AutoZone just dropped the price of the CompressorWorks R4 compressor w/ M-B clutch included - now $189+ tax for a new unit.

Yak is right with the steps to pull the clutch. Too bad I didn't get his help before I broke the first R4.. Leaterman must be chuckling now.

Here's pic taking the center nut off the 2nd R4. I used a chain wrench which worked great.

Yak, Is the Autozone Compressor works unit any good? That may be an option if my compressor turns out to be NG.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...070610_003.jpg

To get to the clutch bearing, the 6 bolts with staked washers on the perimeter must be removed. This is pic of the 2nd R4 clutch disassembled. The 2nd R4 has 11 mm bolts, but the 1st R4 has 8 mm bolts. Why the difference?

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...070610_004.jpg

Supported on wood blocks, hammer and large socket to drive the bearing out. I bought the Autozone bearing at $25. The packaging said it is made in Japan so hopefully it's a good bearing.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...070610_005.jpg

Chuckling ? If you are having fun that is all that counts...
MB engineers must have made a lot of their money on selling special tools to their own Dealers... but on AC compressors the fact is that for them to last a long time the tolerances have to be close...

Don't know. Mine's on the floor of my garage waiting to be installed.

I read that CompressorWorks is the last manufacturer of "new" R4 compressors and other companies just rebrand them. But I've also seen new "Behr" compressors online, so who knows (except maybe Behr, or Delphi...).

They've got a website, say their stuff is assembled in Dallas, etc etc.
http://www.compressorworks.com/default.aspx?page=Rfour

And buy a new hammer before you hurt yourself!

Here's the old bearing next to the new (green one). The first bearing from Autozone I looked at, box says made in Japan. Bearing was not in a sealed package so I went back and exchanged it for a sealed one but box says made in China, Looked at the other 2, box says made in USA. None of the bearings had any Mfg name or country of origin on the bearing itself except the green one which says Santech (the others were black with just some numbers). My guess is they are all made in China. I have not installed the new bearing and will return it. What I did was install the good coil in the clutch housing with a good bearing and now have a complete compressor that does not make noise when spun. I figure that with a compressor that is an unknown and untested, that I should not put money into it. I will put a pressure gauge on the compressor, mist some oil in it and spin it on the bench. Depending on what kind of pressure output I get, I will decide if I will install it.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...070710_002.jpg

When will you install yours? The hammer looks like the handle is loose but it is not. I drove the stakes in and it is tight.

R4 no sump is BS- see video
 

I further disassembled the R4 with the broken collar. As can be seen in the video, there is plenty of space at the low point for a sump and oil to collect. The half moon part that I am turning the compressor by is an oil slinger!

Anyone know how to further disassemble it so I can get the pistons out? Do I need a special puller?

Click to play video!

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...1278605183.jpg

Funola,

Do you know whether the compressor you are dissassembling is a mercedes specific R4. Check out the upside down email I posted where the R4 for GM is mounted correctly and the r4 for mercedes is bottom mounted.

check that oil slinger (I'm assuming it spins so the lateral orientation wouldn't matter)

There should be a path for oil to travel into the moving parts that is orientation specific.

Let us know.

Kent

Kent, both R4's are OEM Mercedes Delco's afaik. The X does point to an oil hole.on the 4 bolt bearing plate. Since It's been removed, I couldn't tell it's orientation with respect to the compressor so I looked at my other R4, which ihas a different casting and does not have an X like the first R4. It does however, have a circle in the same location on the 4 bolt bearing plate, and the circcle is on top with respect to the compressor. Assuming the 2 marks are equivalent, the Merecedes R4's do have the bearing oil hole on top to allow grivity feed lubrication.

Is the video playing? I can't seem to play it on this computer (not mine).

Yes , it is playing.

I called uo Compressor Works (mfg of R4's) and asked about the sump. They insist it is sumpless. They said, for proper lubrication, there must be proper amount of refrigerant/oil mix and PROPER FLOW. I said there is a cavity in the bottom of the R4 that can hold oil and he says there may be 1/2 to 1 oz of oil in there. Anyway I am just going by what I see and I am sure Compressor Works is right. Maybe that 1/2 moon thing is a counter weight., but, if there is oil which touches the half moon, it will work as an oil slinger.

I have been preaching that because the R4 does not have a sump... that that makes the oil miscibility factor of a refrigerant which is used in them much more important than a refrigerant used in axial and other sump type compressors...

Probably next weekend for the install. My system is flushed and sitting there sealed up. Waiting on a part or two for a custom install.

I'm shoveling dirt for Homes for Our Troops (shameless plug) this weekend.

Doesn't anyone own ball peens anymore?

Ball Peens....
That was actually what I thought the reference to wrong hammer was directed to...
I do not think a nail claw hammer is made for ( the hardening process on the face ) anything except nails.... which are relatively soft ...
If you are striking a metal which is hardened itself other types of hammers.... are typically used.... for safety.

The sticker's still on that one:eek:.

Thanks for the pictures and write up.

How about a good pic of the inside of that cover plate?

I just checked my Harrison HR100T that was not OE, but may/may not have been an M-B repair and compared to the CompressorWorks. The Harrison has the X/casting on the top, as installed, and the CW will be on the bottom.

Is there some hole or channel on the inside of the cover? Mostly hemispherical?

I am out of town and won't be able to take pics till Saturday or Sunday. The hole is on the inside of the cover plate (with 4 bolt holes) right above the needle bearing/ seal. If the orientation of the hole is wrong, you can re-orient it by removing the 4 bolts and pulling the cover. I used a 3/8 breaker bar to tap it off but there must be a special puller for it.

compressor works
 

I recently replaced my R4 compressor in the benzo with a new compressor from compressor works. Went by the facilities since i work right around the corner. Talked to one of the reps, and all of the manufacturing is done on premise. They are also a direct supplier for delphi compressors and gm. Talked to the rep about x mark and bearing oil supply.

My compressor came with no x mark, but did instead have a flat spot where the x would have been placed in the appropriate position.

Very quiet operation, i cannot hear it run when on. Very solid component.

I thought about dis-assembly before throwing it in the trash. But it was enough with replacement. Glad some one else did it.

Pics of mark and oil hole
 

This is the "X" mark on the cover at 12 o'clock. It is part of the casting.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...a/DSC00192.jpg

On the other side of the x you can see the oil hole.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...a/DSC00190.jpg

I pulled the seal out for a better look at the hole. The white thing on the left is a spacer for the seal that's on its right. The seal is spring loaded. You can see the white background through the oil hole, which drips oil into the roller bearing and the seal if the x mark hole is on top.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...a/DSC00199.jpg

Everyone needs to take their digital cameras out to their cars and take a picture of the top side of their AC compressor...
We need to see if this is standard....
Wish we could check some compressors which have failed to see if this was the problem..
of course ' failing' in this case would probably mean the front bearing and seal...
this being in the wrong position should not cause the compressor to self destruct in other manners... as would improper matching of oil and refrigerant...

I pulled the original compressor that was in Thayer's car, and it has the x on the bottom...
it was failing, but cooling OK so far. we were not going to change it out until the leaking seal could not be found, so we put in a rebuilt one.
I'm holding the compressor upside down for the picture...:eek:

John, is that a Delco R4? Is it orig or reman?

Do you know how to get the casing off my partially disassemnled R4? Is it sealed by 2 large o-rings?

oh, it's a reman.
I think he said he had it changed a few months ago...

Judging by the bad rep of reman auto parts I've read about, I'd say it is more likely for a reman R4 to have the hole in the wong spot than an orig Delco as it comes from Mercedes.

I am scratching my head trying to figure out the logic.:confused: