1984 300TD Diagnostics results... Plz Help!
 

Hi everyone. I recently just purchased a 1984 300TD. The car is beautiful. A little slow but runs great! Only 1 previous owner. I took it in for diagnostics test thinking that it will need minor repair but then I got the bad news... Let me just say that going by their reviews, this place is known for good thorough work.

Click below to look at the report.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7633/carproblems.jpg

$3000 is the total for all the work.

Now my questions are... Does the costs seem right? Is all this work necessary? Can I get it cheaper? Recommend anyone in NY area?

I was told by the mechanic that there are 3 major things that can happen. I'm not sure if he was exaggerating... He said that the steering damper and the center link (could be the upper control arms. can't remember) needs to be changed because if they break, I could lose control of my wheels and have a really bad accident. 2nd... He said if I don't deal with the transmission mounts, that the transmission can suddenly fall off... 3rd... The engine can also fall off if I don't do the work. He said that he recommends not doing the work and reselling the car. That broke my heart!

Is it possible to get the parts from ebay or other sources online and get a self employed mechanic to do the work cheaper?

I'm not sure if I'm willing to put in another $3000 in it. If it was half that, I would do it in a heartbeat. The car has obsolutely no rust and is cosmetically in great condition.

Any words of wisdom are greatly appreciated! I was feeling so good about this car... Such a shame. I want to CRY!

Digieditny
http://www.mercedesforum.com/forum/i...c/progress.gif

The invoice is a nice list of things to repair, but I don't think it's as dire as painted by the mechanic. His prices are way on the high side:

$9 per quart for oil? You buy quality oil for significantly less than half.
$10.50 per air filter support? $3 or $4, depending on style.
$185 each for an upper control arm? $75 each
Replace the oil pan? Did he give a dire warning, or is it just dirty?

Gotta place to work and some tools? You can do most of this yourself.

UCA how-to: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/281252-how-upper-ball-joint-replacement-step-step-pictures-w123.html?highlight=torque

Motor mount how to: http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM617MotorMounts

Plenty of info here. Just start searching and reading.

I live in Brooklyn so space is limited. I can work on it on the street since luckily I live in a neighborhood where there lots of mechanics. I'm sure I can do the filters myself. Not sure about the other stuff... No tools yet... but am willing to purchase. Recommend? A ratchet set enough? ha... Totally newbie.

I was also looking at the mercedesource.com and was thinking about buying their "Mercedes 5 Cylinder 617 300D 300TD 300SD Physical Exam Kit
Check the Health of your Diesel Engine Yourself " to check compression. What do you think about this?

http://**************.com/node/5899

He said the pan was badly dented. He said the previous owner must have hit something that dented it.

I'm taking it somewhere else for a second opinion. What do you feel is the most important thing to get fixed. I want to make sure the car is safe to drive.

Thanks

digi

Thanks for the links! Not sure if I can do the control arms on the street though. The engine mounts look easy!

The engine oil pan is composed of a main aluminum section and a lower ferrous metal section. It's likely all you need is the lower section which is neither expensive new nor difficult to replace. Depending on how it was hit, though, you might want an experienced eye to check the oil pump pick-up.

Sixto
87 300D

Is a basic summary of the discussion: you've got oil leaks, your steering is loose and your motor/tranny mounts are shot?

Based on his list I'd look at fixing the oil leaks or the steering first. Steering for safety, oil for longevity of the engine, depending on size of leak and diligence about checking oil.

The only one I'd really look at a mechanic for might be the oil filter housing. That's a PITA. I'm not sure it's a $300 PITA, but it's probably not something you want to try on the street with limited tools.

10.35 isnt bad IF the shields are installed too. just mounts its pricey. you really can do most of this yourself with parts from here, and get MUCH better prices on parts, and be SURE you are getting quality parts!
and this site is the best for assistance when you get stuck!
many mechanics explain what is wrong by giving worst case scenario's to explain what the failing part can do. shops charge what they feel they can charge. if you trust the shop to do the work and you can afford it, by all means spend the moolah.
if you want the same quality work, and you wanna buy some tools, we can help you get your car in tip top shape.

Thanks so much for all the great help! Tomorrow I'm going to go get a second opinion about the work. So I think I'm gonna ask him to do the oil filter housing, The steering, and the leak. Then I'll look into doing the rest of it myself.

Sound good?

digi

I should have skipped my US Navy helicopter certification and PE engineer license and gone into stone-age MB mechanics. I could retire by Tuesday.

Labor:
What is the shop rate, $750/hr?
Air Filter/mounts 0.25 hr
Oil filter ?
Oil pan? For brownie pan maybe 0.5 hr. For main aluminum casting and pan much more--rarely the issue.
Steering damper and control link maybe 0.75 hr.
R&R engine and trans wtf???


Parts:
Air filter mounts are $2 from Uro or $6 from MB.

Oil filter is $10 from aftermarket (Mahle, etc) or $15 from MB.

You can't pay $9 for oil even from Redline.

The oil pan is about $20. It's basically a brownie pan.

There's only one transmission mount, and it's about $15.

There are two engine mounts, and they're about $20.

YMMV.

From the looks of the parts prices, it looks like marketing is the place to be, not mechanics. I would like to sell a few truckloads of transmission mounts for $214 each!!! Not to mention a few oil pan gaskets at $48.50.

to give you an idea... I just got through adjusting a customer's valves, IN HIS DRIVEWAY, replaced the V/C gasket, and replaced the Utube seals, and all the air cleaner mounts WITH new shields, 153.35 total.

you can do the steering easily yourself. all you will need is an alignment. and 125 is a crazy price for an alignment.
have you seen the leak yourself? it's not common for the oil filter stand to leak. it DOES happen, but have you SEEN it yourself? clean everything up and verify what they are saying.
3K for general service is very pricey!

If you need to check prices for parts why not click on buy parts at the top of this screen?

As I'm often "here" I usually do that as a starting point.

I did check the prices at the top. I can't believe how much cheaper it is from what the price I was quoted. Unreal... It's really annoying to find out that they're trying to rip you off.

Seriously? I can do the steering myself? From a scale from 1 to 10, how dificult is it? Is it possible to do it on the street or will I need to lift the car up? Where can I find instructions?

Digi

I have always dreaded taking any of the Benzes I have owned to a dealer, or a mechanic that I was not familiar with. Many have the opinion that if you can afford a Benz, you should be able to afford their outrageous repair prices.
Since your space and tools are limited, try and find a good independent mechanic that will charge reasonable rates and not try to rebuild your entire car in one visit.
Scroll down on this site and you will find a list of repair shops in your area that others have used with good results.
Also, there are other MB forums, but this one is the best, especially when it comes to diesels.
Best of luck with your car.

it depends on how strong your hands and arms are, but one of the first responses to your post had links on replacing the upper control arms. it's very simple, I've done it in 30 minutes. replacing the links are as simple as unscrewing then screwing back together... a couple of special tools for separating tie rod ends are needed usually, but any mcparts store will rent you the tools for free (deposit on tool, then refund)

I think I'm taking Tpawlik's advice and finding an independent mechanic. I really don't have the space to work on anything that would take me more than a day. Here in brooklyn, we have to park on the opposite sides of the street every other day because of street cleaning. I'd love to be able to work on it. I need to move to a city with a little more space. Maybe nows the time to buy that house in Jersey.

digi

You say you have mechanics in the neighborhood? The work listed is not really M-B specific except for a few things, so they can do the work.

You can also nibble away at it. There's almost nothing on the list that says "Fix me right now!"

Oh really? The 2 things that have me concerned is the center link and the damaged oil pan. I guess those things aren't MB specific. Hmmm I wonder if I can buy the part here and then take it to a mechanic to install it.

digi

My time is worth something. I still service my own cars rather than taking vasoline along and being bent over the fender at some commercial garage. Until my income is a couple of hundred dollars an hour after taxes and costs I will continue to do so. Equivelant to base labour rates and markup on parts plus shop charges and unethical billing practices. There is usually no charge for the resident B.S. All places are not like this but the majority are. They in effect prey on your ignorance.

In your case there might be a mechanic in your area that is fair minded and works part time under the table.Source him out. They usually have local reputations to guide you and their part time work rates are far more equatable if they normally work daytime hours in a garge they do not own.

By and large most jobs on these cars especially the ones you mention do not require specific brand knowledge. Maybe he will not object to you supplying the parts. You have to ask first. Not everyone is totally mercenary in this world yet.

Actually it is an economic fact of life that a really older car will require more work. Unless the individual is extremely well heeled financially doing it yourself and sourcing parts is almost mandatory. We all had to start doing this ourselves at one time or pay the penalty.

The majority of site members were not born with a wrench in their hands or are working mechanics. I think the majority in many situations would not mind farming out some jobs. The resultant cost of doing so prohibits it most times. On the otherhand some jobs are very easy and enjoyable to accomplish yourself. As time goes by you learn more and more. This has some real value in itself. Almost any tool you purchase will repay it's cost over and over. Useable tools for self maintainers are pretty inexpensive now.

Barry. I totally hear what you're saying. I prefer to work on it myself than paying a mechanic to do it. I love ingesting all the information and applying it. I changed a simple little fuel filter today and suddenly I had this connection with the car and was overwhelmed with a sense of pride. Ha! I know it was a simple primary fuel filter!

It's just not practical to work on the car on the street. I'm not sure if it's legal in NYC. If there's anything too difficult or time consuming, I would rather a mechanic do it. I would love to have space to work on projects like this. It's one of many drawbacks living in a big cramped urban jungle. You have to be rich to have your own garage in NYC.

I'm going to look over the list of what needs to get done and see what I can do myself.

digi

I hear you loud and clear as well. Do you have a friend you respect for his knowledge and ability? If so see if you can get him interested to help you. At least once a week I am out giving a friend a hand with something he cannot comforatably cope with. Or just needs a hand. Or solving their problem with a phone call.

I gain many things from this effort over time. The expression you give you get does apply. Some of these friends and aquantences have serious skills in areas I am far from strong in. I can call in favors at any time if I wish. Sometimes I do either for myself or others. Never abusing the privliges I have established.

This system of skill exchange is far less prevelant in massive cities but still exists to some lesser extent wherever there are people. I grew up in a congested area of Toronto. I got so tired of the limits it imposed I prepared and eventually left.

We as a family never looked back. This may not be for everyone but it was for us. We wanted a better life. I actually feel sorry for some of my friends I left behind when visiting them periodically in Toronto.

There is another world away from big cities one can adapt to. For us as a family it was a much better and different world. I could and should write a book on our experiences and the differences. Since we only live once an individual should try to broaden their horizons.

Ya I agree. I do want to move away from the big city. I have to stick it out because of my job. Can't really do what I do in a small town. One day!

My next question.... How can I tell how bad the center (drag) link is. I'd like to be able to use my car this weekend but I'm afraid of taking it too far and have something happen. What should I look for specifically? When the mechanic said that the center link could break causing the wheels to buckle and send me flipping, it freaked me out!

To check the drag-link (centre-link) you'll need an assistant to rock the steering...

--While you look/feel for looseness at each of the joints on its ends, and while you're there, check for any play in the outer 'tie-bar' joints, while your assistant rocks the steering...
--Worth checking the Steering-Idler too,--look for a looseness at the shaft, and knocking noises when steering rocked, Another easy job, you dont even need to jack it up or remove a wheel to do, although a nice 4 foot 1" steel tube helps removal of the old bearings....!

The centre-link (Drag-link) is longer lived than the outer tie-rods, as the tie-rods have more exposure to the elements and the ball-joints at the ends wear more...

These parts are easy to replace, Recently replaced my drag-link, one tie-bar and the steering-damper, took me all of 3/4 of an hour, including jacking up, one wheel removal and sitting it on axle-stands for safety....

The steering-damper is not really a safety related item, more a 'comfort' item....

You'll need a pickle-fork and a nice 4lb hammer for removing the old ones though...:)

Great! Thank you! How much play is acceptable for the center link and the other components? I don't want to drive it far is it's going to fail on me.

Hard call, yes if a joint totally lets go the steernig would be seriously affected. There is no way anyone can tell you on site just how far gone or loose your joint or joints are.

Chances the mechanic was either using the scare tactic to get your money. Or was saying what would eventually happen if the car remained in service. Again you need an experienced friend to look and estimate how loose they are. You are going to be hopping mad if they are in pretty good condition. Most likely there is some wear though.

Those joints are elegiable for change when even a little slop is present to maintain alignment. They can by the same token be almost falling apart. Or somewhere in between the two mentioned conditions. Someone has to have a look to determine reality. In a way there is a test you can do.

If you can get under there and grab the top part of the joint in one hand and the bottom in another.You should not have a lot of up and down movement by pushing and pulling. You can compare one joint to another to get the feel. If it goes up and down perhaps 1/16 inch I would drive on it. If it goes up and down say 1/4 inch it is too far gone or at least I would not drive on it.

Remember it is a ball in a cup. If wear is too much the ball can fall out of the cup. This is not a recommendation to do as I might. It is one of those judgement call things. Also far better than saying to yourself. Well I will just take a chance.

If he alllowed you to drive the car away from his garage remember without saying it was extremely dangerous to do so. Chances are the wear is not that great. But check yourself. With certain steering parts like this I never would suggest a person do something dangerous. Loss of steering while driving is about as bad a senario there is sometimes.

Another thing you might do is phone the mechanic and ask him how bad those joints on the centre link were and is it safe to still drive on them for a few days until I get them changed.

I really preffer the self examination as I have no ideal one way or another how honest or conciencious your mechanic is. It is basically just when wear is detected they should be changed sooner that later. He could be very competent for example but far too expensive for your tastes. Just charging what they think the market wll bear. I know the last statement sounds contradictory yet in many ways it is the reality of the times.