How do you get the upper starter mounting bolt off a 617 turbo in a W123
 

I can't figure out how to get the upper bolt off for the life of me.

I have cut off a piece of M10 Hex and stuck it in the allen head. I tried several techniques to loosen it. Sprayed with Aero-Kroil. Nothing has broken it free.


Help....Im out of ideas :eek:

UPDATE: [I wrote up the entire job, and the solution to this problem here: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=290958]

I use the ball type low profile universal socket with several 1/2" extensions, and an impact wrench... snap on is my friend...

I used a 10mm allen key, lots of extensions and a universal joint attacked to a 1/2 breaker bar. It popped loose pretty easy once you get the correct tool setup.

Auto zone has a long 18 inch extension. It's perfect. 10 mm Allen Socket on it works perfect.

On my n/a, I use a Allen key that has been bent a bit more ~ 110 deg instead of 90. I slip a piece (18") of heavy walled 1/2 id pipe over the arm of the Allen key after it has been fitted into the bolt. It lets me crack it & loosen it from above. It should work on a turbo. The arm of the Allen just misses the firewall.

Agreed on the universal and the multitude of 1/2" drive extensions.

BTW, 3/8" drive extensions are not going to do the job for you.

Also, to break it loose with a 1/2" ratchet is going to be just about impossible............you really need leverage of at least 12"...........that screw is seriously tight.

You do run the risk of rounding the inside of the hex due to the massive torque required to remove it. With this consideration in mind, you might consider heating the head of the screw for about one minute. The heat will lengthen the screw slightly and will simultaneously remove a huge amount of the clamp load.

I recently saved my ass on the new 2002 van trying to remove the oil pan screw. Some DB tightened it way too much and the oil was left in this engine way too long and there was NFW that I'm getting it out without stripping the hex head. I'm using a proper six point box wrench and it's not having any of that. So, I get the propane torch out and hit the head for about 45 seconds..........trying to avoid the nylon washer beneath the head.

Try again...........no go.

Wait about two minutes.

Try again and it comes loose almost without effort. Amazing what a touch of heat in the right place will do...........even when the screw has a massive heat sink from the oil.

I strongly recommend this on that screw for the starter. If you round out that screw the alternatives become too brutal to contemplate.

Thanks
 

Heat + 18" 1/2" drive extension and use the cheater bar. Universal joint as well.

Will give it a try.

I can already see what a treat this thing is going to be to extract from the car once it's unbolted....yeesh.

3/8 worked for me. But it was a southern car and I had done it recently before that. It's not bad with that long extension and universal and Allen socket and cheater bar. 15 min job as long as Allen isn't already stripped.

STARTER REMOVE 300D
 

1984 300D TURBO 155K
USE A LIFT HYD JACK UNDER THE BREAKER BAR AND LONG EXTENSION, LOWER TRANS 2-3 INCH GO OVER THE TOP TRANS

Dieseldan, I use a short piece of 10mm hex I cut off. then use a 10mm long box wrench to break it loose. I come in from the top side and reach down behind the engine. then use a 10mm gear ratchet wrench. Maybe because I use Anti-Seiz it comes right off w/o much efort.

Charlie

What Charlie said 2X,

I did mine from above with a short length of 10mm hex, 10mm wrench, 18" cheater and far more muscle than I thought the bolt would endure. My BP shot up as it broke free, and not break the bolt.

Good Luck,

On my NA I went in from the top side. I pulled the battery tray and air cleaner setup. I couldn't get it from underneath. Although since yours is a turbo you would jhave to remove that. Probably not all that hard to do though...

If you want to go the Impact Wrench route but do not have an Air Compressor I have found that the Harbor Freight 12 volt Impact Wrenches (I have 4 of them) work almost as good as a pneumatic Impact Wrench.
They are made for removing the Wheel Blots or Lug Nuts and for that they also speed up Tire Rotation or will make a Tire Change quicker.
I Bought one of here newer ones about a month ago and it seems to have more pep to it than the one pictured. They sell $25-$30 depending on if there is a sale.
I also works great to snatch off the Alternator Pulley Nuts and I even manage to remove the Crankshaft Bolt on my Volvo Diesel that has more than 200 ft pounds of Torque on it.
I try to keep one in each of my Vehicles.

The Universal Joints for Sockets that have a Ball type Universal Joint are sold as Universals for Impact use.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/f.../zDSC00658.jpg

Depending on how tight the bolt is this may or may not work. I have broken a 10 mm box end wrench using it on a cut down 10 mm allen. If you are gonna try it, use a wrench that has a lifetime guarantee.

Whatever method you use, please take pics of the tools used.

I have never had to do it in the car yet, always had the engine out.

But in the junkyard, dropping the auto trans crossmember gave me alot of access to that bolt. I think the driveline may have been disconnected at the front flex disk for that much movement.

Tip: pic some valve grinding compound on the hex key to give it more bite inside the bolt. You're less likely to round it out that way. I went from above with a 10mm gear-wrench as well.

-Tad

There is actually a special "wobble" extension available that will allow you to get to this bolt. If you decide to use a universal joint, wrap some masking tape or duct tape around it so it doesn't wobble so much that you cant get the 10mm hex key in the bolt head. The special tool costs about $18. I agree that a 1/2" breaker bar is a good tool to use on this bolt.

I watched my Indy do mine on a lift by drooping the tranny support just a few inches; that gave him enough room to have straight access with a long extension.

Thats probably one of the best tips yet, good for changing out the clutch slave on a manual 617 also;), a couple inches more room makes life a breeze:D

A 12 " Breaker bar on the end of the ratchet helps ,you do have to go back and forth to make sure youve got a good solid fit on the bolt (hex) before giving it a final break .Thats one tight bolt usually and can be stripped if your not careful.I remember something like 3 ft of extentsions ,1 swivel at the socket ,you basically are doing the ratcheting near the middle of the trannie.The two handed finger dance to get that bolt back in ,you have to do this job on your back under the car so use plenty of jack stands and chucks for the wheels.Im of the type that 3 stands are my minimium Ill use.

PB Blaster and as a last resort, MAPP Gas. Expect busted knuckles.

Jack up the whole right side of the car and come at it from behind the tranny with a lot of extensions and a universal joint. Don't know if a wobble joint will allow the extensions to drop down behind the tranny. It takes a lot of force to crack that bolt loose.
If that allen end is stuck in the bolt, I'd consider cutting a hole in the firewall/tunnel with a dremel tool to get better access to it.

DD

Did mine a few years ago. I think long extension was used( even though sd is a little different). Heat the cool a few times. Add PB blaster when warm. Let me know if you need an impact wrench.

Success...
 

Thanks guys for the tips.

I was able to get it out with:
- 1" chunk of 10mm allen key
- 1/2" drive, 10mm, 6pt socket
- 1/2" drive universal joint
- 1/2" drive, 20" long extension
- 18" breaker bar


-Applied aero-kroil
-Heated with torch from below with a helper spotting where I was putting the flame.
- put allen chunk in to bolt head from top
- put 10mm socket on from top
- threaded the extension+universal through between exhaust and transmission
- breaker bar

I took pictures and I hope to write it up.

The new starter is a HUGE improvement in cranking speed/power...wow. Didn't expect how much more force the new starter would have.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/290958-pictorial-w123-300d-turbo-starter-motor-replacement.html

I wrote the job up so others can have it easier :)

On a W126....some extensions and a 10mm allen socket. On the W123, a chopped off piece of 10mm allen key, with 10mm allen wrench slid over, and a breaker bar/pipe on the wrench....hasn't failed me yet. The starter on a W123 is much more of a pain than on the W126.