Historically the best built engine design in my book ,what would you say?The unveiling of such a motor could be a boost to Mercedes bottomline and if kept affordable a few younger buyers might be sold.Maybe a 4 and 5 cylinder options with turbo .

Take a look at what the Europeans get for engine options


We'll be getting one of those engines in the fall.

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1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet Parting Out
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."

They're still being made in India (at least the 616 turbo). I wonder if the sale of the engine and trucks rights in India forbid the exportation to other countries?

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I think the vw jetta/golf diesels are about 40 to 50 mpg. If Benz could pump out a motor that had the durability of the 617 and the mpg of the vdubs then they would probably be the winner of the chicken dinner. ALTHOUGH.....

Is the 617 really that durable, or was the whole car really well made? How many cars do you know of that get trashed for engine problems? Every car I've said goodbye to had problems other than the engine....sure there are plenty of cars that go because of neglect to the engine...SPEAKING OF

There was this poor teller at the first bank I worked at. Typical low income family, no "home training"....she bought a brand new rice burning econobox. Financed the whole thing. She never changed the oil...

one year later...the engine locked up.

took it in for warranty....the guy asked "where have been having the oil changed"

She goes "I haven't changed it. But I have been adding oil.

Warranty claim denied. 4 years of car payment with no car. Of course I imagine she just quit paying it and let her credit go out the door.

I digress.

the 93 300d turbo might be the best one. Best mpg, best pickup, still looks sharp.

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77' 300D, "Cartman" SOLD @ 150K (didn't know what I had)
83' 300SD, "The Superdon" 325k+ @ 28mpg
95 E320 wagon, "Millennium Falcon" 231k+ @ 24 Mpg
95 E300D, "Sherley" 308k @ 33.69 Mpg, currently anticipating a head
99 Suzuki Intruder "Trudy" @ 45 mpg

I hate to state the obvious, but how would building an engine that cost too much to produce, was noisy, unable to meet emissions (dirty), inefficient, and overweight be good for Mercedes? It was replaced by the quieter, more efficient, more powerful, cleaner, lighter, and every bit as durable 601/602/603 and then the 606, ... which are good half-million mile engines also with proper maintenance.

Kind of like the 123. A great car in its day, unmistakable classic, durable, ... but the performance, mileage, handling, comfort, features, and safety are very 1970s.

A well maintained VW Tdi will last longer than the body and interior, a well maintained M104 will last 300k, there are GM 3800V6 engines running around with 200k-300k on them, ... the 61x engine was a great engine in its day but technology has moved on in the past 30years.

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Gone to the dark side

- Jeff

Would you elaborate on the above, what exactly is coming here in the fall?

Vahe

Sometimes the old ways are the best ways .Im suggesting a wrap around idea of how Mercedes could sell their durability features of the 617 motor into what has now become attractive to most US buyers and that is to revisit past car designs.The mustang ,camaro ,charger .All have been restyled to reinvent their popularity.If Mercedes could build on those ideas of how the 617 was a leader for its stable of diesel powered vehicles,it could rise interest in the diesel engine for buyers here in the US.

Their current target market seems to work well enough for them, Chas.

2x on the 3.8. It's a great cheap engine. Simple to work on and parts are everywhere. I've had 8-10 of them with well over 200k on them still running perfectly. I have one right now sitting in my yard awaiting a transplant...

http://ipicture.us/I_Picture_Us/Projects/Pages/Lesharo_Rebuild.html

Donar car was a 92 Bonneville SSEi Turbo. Car had been sitting at the salvage yard almost 6 years, we hooked up the jumper cables and the damn thing started on the first turn! Old gas and all. Only issues with the motor are a bad harmonic balancer and a leaking trans seal on the drivers side. Engine had 120k on it.

Info on that project in case your wondering... It's a test. I want to see if I can complete it for free. I have been parting out the original Renault turbo diesel from the motorhome, and so far have broke even on what I paid it and the donor. As I sell off other pieces, I put the money back into the project. next step is actually creating the new engine mounts and getting the engine cradle in along with hooking up the steering...

The problem is not Mercedes but it is the MB USA, these folks insist on importing the most expen$ive models to US for obvious reasons. There are many smaller MB diesels that are sold all over the world except US, you are given the choice of what size diesel engine you want in your C or E class cars as well as standard transmissions, we can only dream about these here in US. Some of the smaller 200 and 220 diesel engines offer fuel economy comparable to VW TDI with MB ride.

The 617 and 616 engines are no longer practical considering the strict emission laws, you need a lot more horsepower to deal with the emission control.

I have a nice and clean 240D manual as well as a 2011 BlueTEC, the BleTEC is an amazing performer but it is too complex for any service beyond its 50K/4 year warranty period, after driving the BluTEC the 240D drives, sounds and performs like a riding lawnmower, but there is a certain charm to this primitive diesel that can not be denied. The BluTEC is really a throw away car, just open the hood and look at what is under there, scary.

Vahe

As another said, you would likely never get the 617 to pass current emission standards where applicable, and really if we've learned anything from the past decade it's that DI is really better.

The only reason it has become accepted in the US more now is that it no longer sounds like you're driving a tractor, not that there's anything wrong with that for me personally, but for a lot of people it's unattractive.

I tool around in a 1986 Golf diesel, now that sounds like a tractor.

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Steve A
92 W140 OM603
97 VW Jetta TDI
90 Passat variant TDI 6 speed MT
94 Chevy K1500 6.5TD
05 E320 CDI
+ others

with some modifications the 617 can be very powerful,and very efficient as well as emission friendly.
better piston ring packs, better IP timing/injector pulsing and improved turbo choices.
basically, it's a OM605...

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John HAUL AWAY, OR CRUSHED CARS!!! HELP ME keep the cars out of the crusher! A/C Thread
"as I ride with my a/c on... I have fond memories of sweaty oily saturdays and spewing R12 into the air. THANKS for all you do!

My drivers:
1987 190D 2.5Turbo
1987 560SL convertible
1987 190D 2.5-5SPEED!!!

1987 300TD
2005 Dodge Sprinter 2500 158"WB
1994GMC 2500 6.5Turbo truck... I had to put the ladder somewhere!

Absolutely. You can get cars with plastic hubcaps and tiny engines most anywhere else...

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Current Diesels:
1981 240D (73K)
1982 300CD (169k)
1985 190D (169k)
1991 350SD (116k)
1991 350SD (206k)
1991 300D (228k)
2008 ML320 CDI (199k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (442k)
1996 Dodge Ram CTD (267k)

Past Diesels:
1983 300D (228K), 1985 300D (233K), 1993 300D 2.5T (338k), 1993 300SD (291k)

Technology may have moved on, but there's still tons of 617's cruising around with 300K on them running fine, including mine.

I don't agree that the 603 is "equally" as durable as a 616/617. "Close" perhaps, but not equal. It had the self destructing vacuum pump, crackable aluminum head, serpentine belt system that is not as durable as fixed V-belts....one giant aluminum oil pan.....hydraulic lifters that can fail and cause ticking noises. I can go on.....

A finely tuned 617 is smooth and powerful and will deliver 400k of ultra reliable service with only basic maintenance.

My engine has 308k on it and the only parts I've replaced in the past 101k are the timing chain, injector nozzles, and glow plugs. Thats it. Maybe $400 of work in 8 years/101k. Still pulls my car to 60 in 11.5-12 seconds.....still gets 25-27mpg.....still starts at 0F with no heater.

IMHO the 617 is way more pleasant to drive in the city as it has much better low end torque than a 603.

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

The new twin turbo 278 gas engine that replaces the 273 5.5 liter has 450 hp and a combined fuel economy of 30 MPG I don't know about you guys but thats better than my 617 has ever got for fuel economy and the 617 does not have 450 hp. Also the 648 inline 6 in the 211 chassis was more durable, powerful and fuel efficient than a 617. I think you guys are overlooking a few things. Also a "twin turbo" 4 cyl c250 and GLK 250 diesel have showed up in the North America EPC. we should see them this fall.

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1987 300D 180k
1985 300SD 330k Helga
1992 300D Lola 269k- Sold
1986 325 coupe Bessie >300k Original engine(ODO Broke) sold
2006 2500HD Druamax Linda- Tows boat and looks pretty in garage thats about it