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-   -   Advice putting Harmonic Balancer back on after it fell off (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/296825-advice-putting-harmonic-balancer-back-after-fell-off.html)

lutzTD 04-06-2011 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007 (Post 2693536)

All that trouble and he forgot the timing cover......

looks like a nice tool to have. how are the crank bolt threads adapted to different models?

Brentdh187 04-06-2011 07:57 AM

Wow lots more info guys this forum and you guys are awesome. I called the dealer in Minneapolis yesterday and ordered the dowels. They are coming from Chicago and won't be here until Friday. Shipped to my door for $12. Got a price from him for a new Harmonic Balancer for $ 357 so I got the HB off one of my donors yesterday. Thanks for that info Barry. I read you shouldn't reuse the dowels or the cup washers what are you thoughts on that? LutzTD I read your other posts and your design looks great. I will look into that more. Barry, do you have any info on that glue? I know from LutzTD and some other's posts that I don't want to put too much glue on so it doesn't hydrolock but I am pretty sure I am using some type of adhesive on it for peice of mind, either Barry's glue or loctitie or JB Weld I know JB Weld would be extreme but if it spins again the crank would be shot anyway and as far as gettting the HB off for a new seal or anything I read to heat it up and it will come off??? Ideas. I am going to dry fit the HB todayand see how everything lines up. I will take some more pictures too. Thanks again guys.

Brentdh187 04-06-2011 08:02 AM

I used a dewalt cordless impact with 350lbs of torque to get the donor crankshaft bolt out and it seemed to struggle but got it. What are your guys thoughts on using the impact again to install the HB and to make sure I have enough torque? Would another hundred pounds be too much stress for the crankshaft bolt?

tangofox007 04-06-2011 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD (Post 2693885)
how are the crank bolt threads adapted to different models?

Adapters.

Stretch 04-06-2011 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brentdh187 (Post 2693888)
I used a dewalt cordless impact with 350lbs of torque to get the donor crankshaft bolt out and it seemed to struggle but got it. What are your guys thoughts on using the impact again to install the HB and to make sure I have enough torque? Would another hundred pounds be too much stress for the crankshaft bolt?

If I were you I wouldn't be using impact wrenches on this part of the car... I most certainly wouldn't be using one for doing the bolt up. Use a torque wrench as stated in the FSM. A slow steady application of force is safest - no impacts!

lutzTD 04-06-2011 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangofox007 (Post 2693907)
Adapters.


Thanx Tango, for the original poster or others following Pep Boys has the Harmonic Balancer install tool on their tool loaner list tool #27144

http://www.pepboys.com/parts/tools

likely any local big chain parts dealer will too

vstech 04-06-2011 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD (Post 2693885)
All that trouble and he forgot the timing cover......

looks like a nice tool to have. how are the crank bolt threads adapted to different models?

I always lock another wrench on the square face of the center bolt... odd he uses a hammer handle... easier for the video I'm sure.

I doubt any adapters are available to make a chevy tool fit a MB crank... likely a MB specific tool would be needed to source! my tool has different threaded bolts for chevy or dodge... I don't use ford, but I think my tool has that thread also.
I've never gotten that deep into a MB motor yet, so don't know what is needed there...

Brentdh187 04-06-2011 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Army (Post 2693909)
If I were you I wouldn't be using impact wrenches on this part of the car... I most certainly wouldn't be using one for doing the bolt up. Use a torque wrench as stated in the FSM. A slow steady application of force is safest - no impacts!

I will for sure use the HB install tool now that I know of it thanks for the info and links. Once I have it installed and pushed on all the way with the install tool and snugged up the bolt with a breaker bar what harm would it cause to double check with the impact? What would an extra 100lbs of torque do??

Brentdh187 04-06-2011 09:34 AM

Does anyone have a link for the three lock washers that go on the 27mm crankshaft bolt? I suppose I better put in a new front crankshaft seal? What else should I replace while the radiator is out and on the operating table?

vstech 04-06-2011 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brentdh187 (Post 2693933)
I will for sure use the HB install tool now that I know of it thanks for the info and links. Once I have it installed and pushed on all the way with the install tool and snugged up the bolt with a breaker bar what harm would it cause to double check with the impact? What would an extra 100lbs of torque do??

it could easily break the bolt, surely it would damage it. MB specs the bolt for the torque in the book. that is what you should use!
it could pull the threads out of the crank, it could damage otherthings that are not even thought of yet. don't do it.
use the correct torque, and only the correct torque. PERIOD!
even the lubricant you apply on the bolt makes a difference! most torque specs are with standard motor oil on the threads. some are dry, some are with special lubricants on them, and some are with loctite specs on them. you should find out what to put on the bolts in the same place where the torque spec is found!

Stretch 04-06-2011 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech (Post 2693945)
it could easily break the bolt, surely it would damage it. MB specs the bolt for the torque in the book. that is what you should use!
it could pull the threads out of the crank, it could damage otherthings that are not even thought of yet. don't do it.
use the correct torque, and only the correct torque. PERIOD!
even the lubricant you apply on the bolt makes a difference! most torque specs are with standard motor oil on the threads. some are dry, some are with special lubricants on them, and some are with loctite specs on them. you should find out what to put on the bolts in the same place where the torque spec is found!

X2

The torque that you are instructed to apply to the bolt in the FSM has been carefully calculated - please use it. Giving it an extra four white knuckles does not mean you're making sure it won't come undone - as John says you are more likely to break it.

Brentdh187 04-06-2011 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstech (Post 2693945)
it could easily break the bolt, surely it would damage it. MB specs the bolt for the torque in the book. that is what you should use!
it could pull the threads out of the crank, it could damage otherthings that are not even thought of yet. don't do it.
use the correct torque, and only the correct torque. PERIOD!
even the lubricant you apply on the bolt makes a difference! most torque specs are with standard motor oil on the threads. some are dry, some are with special lubricants on them, and some are with loctite specs on them. you should find out what to put on the bolts in the same place where the torque spec is found!


So put a little motor oil on it and torque it to what LBS? I would rather use a little loctite to help hold it in place so I guess I would perfer the spec with loctite.

Brentdh187 04-06-2011 10:53 AM

I am looking for the FSM and need some direction here as well. I want to get a workshop manual for the car and after buying a Chilton one at the parts store I realize there isnt much in that one that helps me. Should I be looking for a Haynes one or is there a different one I should buy.

Stretch 04-06-2011 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brentdh187 (Post 2693990)
I am looking for the FSM and need some direction here as well. I want to get a workshop manual for the car and after buying a Chilton one at the parts store I realize there isnt much in that one that helps me. Should I be looking for a Haynes one or is there a different one I should buy.

Don't bother with Haynes.

Have a look on this thread:-

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/general-information/248948-mercedes-service-manual-source-cd-dvd-paper.html?highlight=FSM+source

Brentdh187 04-06-2011 10:54 PM

5 Attachment(s)
I took the radiator out and tried the dry run as Barry suggested. Not good. As the pictures show there is more damage to the snout than I thought and the new to me HB won't even start on for the dry run. I am at a crossroads then. There are 185,000 miles on this engine with service records to back it up since the day it was born. Should I stop looking at repairing the crankshaft and do a compression test to make sure all my time is time well spent. I would hate to get this part done only to find out LutzTD was on to something about the PO running it hot without the water pump. Are there other tests to do to check the health of this engine with the parts that are off it now? Thanks for the replies guys.


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